Toto Maris Toilet CST484CEMFG with Dual-Max Cyclone

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by peggyandpascal, Sep 22, 2012.

  1. peggyandpascal

    peggyandpascal New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    CA
    Hi,

    Has anyone seen or tried the new Maris toilet?

    I was planning to get the Aquia One-Piece but saw some reviews complaining that its flush does not remove all residues due to its small water hole and manual cleaning is required very often. So I was going to go for Legato instead, but now there is Maris. Just wonder if Maris will do better than Aquia performance wise since it uses Dual-Max Cyclone and has SanaGloss despite its small water hole?

    Thanks!
    Peggy

    http://www.totousa.com/ProductDetail.aspx?productid=1215

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2012
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,401
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Glancing over the specs, it appears to be a very worthy addition to the Toto line. Nice, clean lines and the skirt makes this a very good looking toilet. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. One thing you can be sure of is this is a quality product. Toto does not produce anything but high quality.
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,999
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Pros: It's a dual-flush, but instead of a washdown flush, it's a double-cyclone. The first to blend the two. Cool!

    Cons: Brand-new flush-valve, handle-actuated by pulling chains from pushing or pulling handle. PARTS LIST I would love to see more than a sketch of that thing and develop some confidence that it's going to last, as opposed to being like the first batch of Voreto Chinese fill valves. Also the latest Voreto fill valve used in this toilet looks more and more like a 400A (TSU42A, but maybe that's just the sketch). No reason yet to think it can't be replaced by the adjustable Korky, however. I will be very interested to see a video of this toilet operating, as soon as someone has it installed and working.

    A few other things stand out: although a skirted toilet, no unifit adapter; now using wing nuts on the tank-to-bowl set; servicing instructions for flush valve look a bit complicated. But we'll see once it's in and working for folks.

    I have decided today that I really can't personally stomach funding a Chinese society that would tolerate a mayor ordering a steamroller driver to run over a guy lying in the street trying to block them from knocking down his house. Caution: Graphic Strory Geez...just arrest the guy and drag him away. To murder him is just...too different. My brain just can't wrap around it. Really threw me for a loop. Sorry, can't give these people my money anymore. So...no iPhone for me; I'll keep my Taiwan-made HTC, thank you. It seems that we're destined to have many products produced offshore, but mainland China isn't the only foreign source available. So, if it's a Voreto valve, I'll stick with the models with a Korky flapper, thank you very much.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  4. FunNut

    FunNut New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Rowe Mesa, NM
    So do all Toto toilets have Chinese parts? I'm getting ready to buy two new toilets and agree with avoiding Chinese anything.
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,999
    Location:
    New York, NY
    No, Toto has a number of toilets in which the china is made in the US, and the "trim" (i.e. fill valve, flapper, etc.) are made in the US by Korky. Any toilet that takes the "red" Toto flapper uses a Korky flapper (at least it used to). I read a review on a major merchant's web site where an engineer went into Full Geek mode and compared the tool marks on the flapper that came with his Toto Drake to the tool marks on the Korky "Fits Toto" Red flapper, made in Wisconsin, that he had bought at Lowe's to replace it. (The Korky flapper you buy at Lowe's, being a factory-authorized product, actually says "Toto" on it.) He concluded that they were unequivocally made on the same machine; not the same type of machine, the same machine, in Wisconsin. Depending upon where the Toto toilet is molded, you may or may not get it with a Korky 528 fill valve, also made in the US. And now, when you want to order the replacement fill valve for virtually any Toto toilet directly from Toto, they are going to steer you to a valve called the TSU99A.X, which is their new universal replacement fill valve, regardless of what fill valve came with your toilet. That, too, is a version of the Korky 528MP, the Korky version of which you can get at Lowe's. (There may be some slight differences in the valve designed for Toto, but it is effectively the same thing.) All of this stuff is Made in the US.

    That said, Toto makes some models only in the US, and some models in various places, like Vietnam and Mexico. They are the world's largest plumbing fixture company, so naturally they have plants all over. I have a tank made in the US and a tank made not in the US. I have a bowl made in the US and a bowl not made in the US. Interestingly, the US tank wasn't delivered with the US bowl. The quality on all of them was excellent, indistinguishable one from the other. Nothing came from China, except that one of the Drakes (and my Carlyle) came with that Voreto valve, which was designed (and patented) by two Toto engineers and built by a company called Voreto in Xiamen, China. I disposed of the Voreto valve in my Drake, which made an annoying chirping sound, and replaced it with a Korky 528T, and now it shuts off just like the Drake that came from the factory with the 528T, i.e. smoothly, with no chirp. From what I can tell from the patent application, Toto had some design goals with that Voreto valve along the lines of reducing customer complaints and confusion, making it more idiot-proof to maintain, and making it shut off more affirmatively. I understand why they want to go there, but I think they have just induced a different set of complaints. But, hey, it's a toilet fill valve so it isn't the end of the world in any event.

    Otherwise, the design mandate on the Totos was for a long time to keep it gimmick-free, simple, and of high-quality. I'm not sure that the marketing people aren't pushing away from that "gimmick-free" part a little bit, but we will see as this next round of toilets comes on-line. Is that new flush valve a real technological advancement, or is it a gimmick? Only use will tell.

    Bottom line, you can look on Terry's sales page and see which toilets are all made here in the US, and even if you get something like the Drake, you can always ask at your plumbing supply if they have a tank and a bowl that have "Made in the US" on them, or if they can secure you one. Most other brands, like American Standard, Crane, Kohler and others (except Mansfield), build most of their toilets in Mexico. And the Fluidmaster 400A valve, the mainstay of US toilet fill valves, is made there as well.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  6. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,401
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    One of the main factors on where Toto locates their plants is the quality of the clay in that area. They do not have plants in China, but as pointed out by WJ, since they are the largest manufacturer of toilets in the world, they do have plants in countries other than the US. It is worth noting however, Toto designs and quality control make it possible for mixing and matching bowls and tanks (two piece models) The not only fit perfectly, the color matches are perfect as well.
  7. ThomasD.

    ThomasD. New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Hey, would like to revive this thread. Is there anymore information or input on the Toto Maris. Literally about to order the wall mounted Aquia and just found out about the Maris. Can't find any reviews about it. I'm going with the Geberit Wall Carrier, so flushing mechanisms and parts are not my main concern. Just want to know how it compares with the Aquia and if it's available. Was about to order the Aquia from Love Plumbing today. Just one now to make sure we like it and 5 more for the bed & breakfast later.The "Home Improvement" shows are always installing these wall mount toilets but I can never find any substantial reviews about them. So, any current information about the Aquia and Maris would sure be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Thomas
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,999
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Take a look at the spec sheets from the Toto web site. MARIS SPECS AQUIA SPECS

    The Maris wall-hung and Aquia wall-hung are both washdown flushes. (The Maris floor-mount model uses a Double-Cyclone, but that wouldn't work on a wall-mount because it has to work with a wall tank.) The Maris is a little different looking, and is an inch longer. They both have the same trap size and water consumption. The Aquia water spot is a little bigger. Given that they use a standard carrier, they are going to mount pretty much the same.

    I think it's going to boil down to aesthetics. Maybe an advantage to the Maris sitting position being a little further forward off the wall, although the spec sheet isn't 100 percent clear on that; i.e. where the extra inch comes from.

    We have the Aquia wall-hung at my club's beach house, with Toto carriers. Looks nice and works reliably. I assume the same will be true for the Maris.
  9. ThomasD.

    ThomasD. New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Appreciate the response. I agree that the specs are very similar. That made me wonder if I was missing something. Why 2 products with such similarity? The slightly rounded tank of the Maris will be non existent with a wall carrier. And couldn't really see much difference in the bowl design and looks. Ordering the package through Love Plumbing since they are considerably less expensive than out local parts houses up here. Thanks again.
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,444
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I checked the Geberit web page, and their carrier uses the 320 dual-flush tank, which is listed as working with the Bolero Actuator Plate from Geberit.
    And of course the CT418FG Aquia bowl works with the carrier.

    [​IMG]

    CT418FG Aquia

    [​IMG]
    Maris CT486FG wall-hung bowl
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  11. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,999
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Actually, given that there is a limit to how "different" a bowl can look when it's hanging off the wall, I think that these two do have different looks. Take a look at the photos in the spec sheets. As a practical matter, I think that the Maris might be a little more comfortable given that the seat bolts (and thus the whole sitting position) seem to be about an inch further off the wall than the Aquia. OTOH, if you are trying to minimize instrusion into the room, maybe that absence of an inch of china on the Aquia makes a difference.

    Of course, I think Terry deserves every bit of business that he gets, so I'm glad you are ordering from him!!
  12. ThomasD.

    ThomasD. New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Maris wall mount w/ Geberit wall carrier ordered from Love Plumbing. Have to wait for the Horizontal Discharge adapter pipe to make it in before shipment. Will be glad to give a review upon installation. Bathroom remodel in framing stage, waiting for wall carrier to start finishing. Ordering from Terry and dealing with both Jamie / Terry was painless & productive. . Having been a small Electrical Contracting business myself for 20+ years, I appreciate the one on one of a smaller family operated business.
    Thanks
  13. Alice and the boys

    Alice and the boys New Member

    Messages:
    1
    I have the Toto Maris and a Toto Guinevere. The Toto Maris has been wholly unsatisfactory. From the beginning, this toilet was a disappointment. I got carried away by the "dual cyclone" and virtues of "Sanagloss" verbiage. This toilet creates the worst shit stripes I have ever seen, regardless of enthusiasm of flushing. And it plugs up. I thought by buying this toilet, I could virtually get rid of my plunger. Not so much. All family members have been schooled in the finer points of dual toilet flushing, and the apparently finicky requirements of this model of toilet. It was supposed to be easier, not more difficult. I called the Toto USA line and spoke to the technical department, and they told me that because the Maris has a low amount of water in the bowl, that a person using it for #2 should flush it while they were doing #2 (and again afterwards). Isn't that crazy? Aside from the fact you can't find that advice or requirement anywhere in their marketing material, it is almost physically impossible to do - very awkward to reach and flush while sitting facing forward. Especially if you are a small 9 year old! Stay away. An expensive experiment, but I will be replacing my Maris with something that works. Anyone want a slightly used Maris?
  14. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,999
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I am assuming that you are talking about the floor mount model.

    This may explain why it is effectively no longer available. A rare miss for Toto. I take it that you like the Guinevere? Hope this doesn't turn you off Toto in general, because we love ours, and we have several different models.

    Just between us, I would get back on the phone with Toto and see if maybe they wouldn't arrange for a different Toto at a substantial discount. Praise the Guinevere (assuming that you like it), and share your disappointment with: (a) this lame toilet that you understand that they have now discontinued and (b) the incredibly lame instructions that some nice person there gave you, which are preposterous. That this toilet very quickly became no longer available and very quickly disappeared off their web site suggests that you aren't the only one dissatisfied with it. I wouldn't ask for a totally free new toilet, but I would express disappointment given their reputation, indicate that the toilet is so bad you are disposing of it, and suggest that they should stand behind their products and replace this one. If indeed the design isn't defective, then I would take the position that your particular toilet is and suggest that you want a warranty replacement with some other model. See if you can't pry an offer of a discount off a replacement with a model you like, and settle for that. (I mean a discount off of the street price, for which you should use as a reference the lowest price you can find online at that big online company or that big online toilet supplier; it's useless to get 40% off list, because that's near what you could buy it for). If the first person says no, ask nicely to speak to a supervisor, and if they say no, ask nicely who they report to and have a nice discussion with them. Be sensitive to the fact that most obnoxious callers use that question as a threat; I always approach it as, "Well thank you for speaking with me and I appreciate that you have done (or are offering to do) all you can for me, but I'm wondering if a supervisor (or "someone that you report to") might not be empowered to go a little further. Do you think you could transfer me to them, or give me their name and phone number?" Your subtext shouldn't be Angry Consumer, it should be Sad Mom Who Is Near Tears Because She Chose Toto And They Let Her Down. Your goal is to make the person want to help you, not bully your way to a result. I would also weave in that you of course are going to have to bear the expense of having the thing installed again, so a replacement toilet seems fair since the current one is effectively-unusable. And of course if you used a stellar plumber/supplier like Terry (the founder of this forum), you might be surprised at the pull they have and their own willingness to make you happy. Terry is not the norm, however, so I wouldn't hold my breath, but it might be worth a call to your plumber/installer if you bought the toilet through the plumber/installer.

    I kid you not that an old GF's Mom, who herself worked in customer service at a bank, once had nice patient telephone conversations using this technique ("oh, if Mr. Smith isn't available, now who does he report to?") and was transferred all over now-defunct Montgomery Ward about her defective new refrigerator. If a secretary answered and the guy wasn't available, she just asked nicely who he reported to ("Oh, Mr. Jones, I guess.") and asked to be transferred to that person's line until she ended up having a very pleasant conversation about her horrible experience with a very nice man who seemed very interested in having her relate the details of her plight. He concluded by telling her that he appreciated her taking the time to speak to him and that, "I must apologize, because I don't have any authority on the operational side anymore, as my title is Chairman, but I am going to dictate a short memo about your experience to our President, who returns tomorrow. He is a good man, and I am confident that he will see to it that everything is taken care of the way you and he and I would expect it to be." Two days later, a Ward's truck arrived, along with a car bearing the local store manager and the regional Vice-President, and a new, nicer, refrigerator was properly installed, with lots of apologizing.

    I love that story because it shows that we are all human and all worthy, and once you are talking to the right person, being patient and reasonable but clear about your experience can ultimately yield the right result. And being nasty rarely gets you the right person.

    I recently had to deal with some downright nasty folks at HP who were willing to send me a new hard drive under warranty, but insisted that I return my confidential-information-laden existing broken one. They were almost culty about this. Something about their Green Initiative and if they let me keep mine they would have to let everyone do it. Went up three levels, each saying that the person above couldn't change the policy and wouldn't violate it and I was wasting my time. At the fourth level, I encountered similar resistance but the person understood my specific reasons for not wanting to send it, and was persuaded that it really was important enough to me that I was going to just go buy a new drive, and she worked out a way that she could do it without violating their policy and not doing anything dishonest (which was my other requirement; her first suggestion would have left me stiffing them on the fee they would have charged me and then they would write it off, and that seemed dishonest).

    Please PM me as to how this works out for you.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
Similar Threads: Toto Maris
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions Toto MarisCST484CEMFG availability update Mar 26, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Maris vs Eco Nexus & Toto tubs Mar 26, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions Question about wall-hung Maris. Geberit and TOTO carriers Dec 9, 2013
Toilet Forum discussions Toto EcoNexus / Maris / 1.0 gpf Drake 2 May 12, 2013
Toilet Forum discussions Toto Maris vs. Kohler Persuade? Oct 23, 2012

Share This Page