Toto leaking what are these 2 rubber things disentegrating

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Jaysong

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Hi all,

I am in the middle of a DIY fill valve replacement when I noticed some rubber or plastic floating in my tank.

Around the two screws on the bottom of the tank are some rubber seals? I think... When I touch them, they basically are dissolving and are most likely the culprit. What are these so I can order spares? Are they particular to Toto or can I use something generic from lowes or HD? I noticed some water was dripping from under the toilet where the nut and washer tighten these two screws after I poured water into the tank manually.

See attached, hopefully it helps. It's the two screws on each side of the flapper.

image.jpg
 

Jadnashua

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Those rubber seals are what prevent water from leaking past the bolts that hold the tank to the bowl of a 2-piece toilet. Essentially all 2-piece toilets use them. They generally last a very long time, but will fail if you use chemicals IN the tank. IF you do, stop. They're pretty generic.

toto-tank-parts.jpg


The original TOTO parts here.
Just pick up some new rubber washers. The bolts and nuts are still good.
 
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They are called "tank to bowl bolts".

Yours must be changed ASAP, as you said they are "dissolving" and "water dripping".

Every small hardware store and big box store will have them.

brasstankboltset.jpg
 
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DonL

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They are called "tank to bowl bolts".

Yours must be changed ASAP, as you said they are "dissolving" and "water dripping".

Every small hardware store and big box store will have them.

Cheap Ass wing nuts ? :eek:

That is funny as hell.

China ? I guess those are lock washers. ?
 
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Cheap Ass wing nuts ? :eek:

That is funny as hell.

China ? I guess those are lock washers. ?

Wing nuts are the original design of the toilet manufacturer.

The reason for wing nuts is so they are tightened by HAND and not a TOOL. Like many hand-tight parts in plumbing, it provides the sufficient amount of recommended torque.

A wrench on a nut can cause the porcelain to crack, and then you would be buying a new toilet. That would be "funny as hell".

If the manufacturer does not provide lock washers, then they should NEVER be used in tank to bowl bolts, for the reasons above.

So please propose an alternative as to why toilet companies should stop using "Cheap Ass wing nuts"?

PP830-43L.jpg
 
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Terry

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There have always been a few brands that use wing nuts. Some are metal, some are plastic.
As long as they are holding the bowl, I don't see an issue with it.
And yes, I've seen a few broken tanks from overtightening.

TOTO uses brass bolts and nuts, but any after market bolts will work there too.

drake-tank-inside.jpg
 
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Reach4

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See paragraph 8 of https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/toilet-choices.52400/#post-382805

There are 3 points of contact-- front left, front right, back center. While there is room to go, you can rock the tank to give enough clearance to slip a sheet of paper under the two front contact points (one at a time). Once you cannot get that sheet of paper in, stop tightening. I attached my tank after getting the base in place to make it easier to lift and set.

I used silicone grease on my rubber seals. Not needed, but I had the grease, and I wanted that added advantage of getting the rubber to seat better.
 

Jadnashua

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I have to object to that posted drawing...often, using a metal washer IN the tank can be the source of leaks. On most, you do NOT use a metal washer IN the tank, but do underneath it to help spread the load over a larger area and make it easier to turn the nut. Turn the nut, not the head of the bolt and the rubber washer won't get twisted. A second thing to note is that they show TWO nuts...one is used to actually clamp the bolt to the tank, and the second is used to attach that bolt to the bowl. That way, the bolt is more stable, and the seal is more secure verses just one nut on the bottom of the bowl. One thing that can help if the inside of the porcelain tank is rough is to use some fine sandpaper first to smooth it off around where the rubber washer goes. Wipe any debris off with a wet towel before assembly first, though. Normally doesn't make a difference as things are smooth enough, but it only takes moments to do, and could help, won't hurt.
 

WJcandee

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Well, Jim is correct, of course, and, being an engineer, has a good eye.

Handi-hacks screw up a lot of installations by putting the metal washer in the bowl. Only one Toto does it that way -- one of the Aquias.

Your Toto Drake (original Drake) decidedly does not do it that way.

The right way to do it: head of bolt and rubber washer in the tank, then, on the outside of the tank, put the first metal washer and the first nut. Tighten hand-tight plus a quarter-turn. That makes a good seal between the bolt head and tank, eliminating leaks. Then, attach the tank with the rubber washer, metal washer, and nut under the bowl. That's the way Toto gave it to you (with the tank bolts already in the tank). Follow Reach's directions. Tighten (with a wrench) one side than the other side, guiding the tank down holding it vertically, and as it gets close to the points of contact, slow down and tighten side to side until they are ALMOST touching - the thickness of a couple of sheets of paper away. You are compressing the tank onto the rubber donut washer, and it will be nice and firm with no wobble if you do this. The tank isn't going to crack from overtightening as long as none of the three points of contact on the tank are touching their counterparts on the base. If, as you tighten, it starts moving non-vertically so that, say, it is tipping towards the back more than the front two points of contact, then loosen the bolts until you can straighten it out, then start tightening again. The first time I installed a tank, it took me three or four tries to be absolutely-confident that it was going to arrive near the points of contact at almost the same time. After the first time, piece of cake. Also, don't be too worried that one point of contact is a teensy bit closer to contact than another; you want them to be very similar, but you don't need electron-microscope accuracy. Again -- don't let them touch.

But a suggestion: if you are not absolutely 100 percent sure that water is leaking past those washers (which look like most that I have seen), then you don't need to replace them.

Get a nice set of brass tank-to-bowl bolts. What to look for: a nice big head on the bolt (say size of a quarter), nice thick rubber (or cloth-inserted-rubber) washers, and two nice nuts and two rubber washers and two metal washers per bolt. I prefer the nut over the wing-nut myself, because I am comfortable installing a tank.

Here is what a good set looks like. I am not advocating this set per se, but just want to give you an idea. The KCS Direct price is expensive, so I am just using their Sioux Chief offering as an example of a very-good set. Note the solid brass bolt, the 7/8" brass bolt head, the thick, cloth-inserted rubber washers and the solid-brass metal washers and plated nuts. (Also note that Sioux Chief shows the parts on the bolt in the correct order.) Install the tank properly with this bad boy, and it isn't going to leak. But it is also probably overkill, so find something that is more like this than less, and you will be in good shape.

image_resize.php


http://kscdirect.com/item/SIO+490-10500/SIOUX+CHIEF+MANUFACTURING_BOLT+DELUXE+TANK+BOLT+SET%0A
 
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DonL

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So please propose an alternative as to why toilet companies should stop using "Cheap Ass wing nuts"?

This is a good cheap Wing nut.

cheap-wing-nut.jpg


The one in your picture are "Cheap Ass wing nuts"

brasstankboltset.jpg


Sorry but true. They may work fine, But I would not use them.
 
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