Toto Flush Problem

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by gholmes1936, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. gholmes1936

    gholmes1936 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I have a Toto and the flapper drops immediaetely after tripping the lever, and I mean immediately. The chain has the right amount of slack in it and is at the end of the long arm. It has the regular 3 inch flapper with the openings in it. I don't see anything else that could be adjusted. HELP!!!!!! :confused:
  2. ho333ard

    ho333ard New Member

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Illinois
    Um . . . that's how it's supposed to be, no?
    You hold the lever for a few seconds to empty the tank before releasing.
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]
    Looking inside the ST743S Toto Drake tank

    It's not a problem.
    If it were a 2" flapper, it would need to stay up longer to let the same amount of water out.

    Since it's a 3", it happens much quicker.
    Modern toilets don't use all of the water in the tank.
    The tanks hold more than 1.6 gallon though.
    Not matter how water the tanks hold, it's still designed to just release a small portion.
    By having more water in the tank, it raises the water level and that adds force to the flush.
    The flappers on these work just as you described.
    The "are" very quck.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2006
  4. It should be allowing a gallon and a half of water through to adequately flush. When you say "immediately," it sounds as though the flapper drops too soon to allow even a gallon and a half to pass. I would replace the flapper. The flappers for G-Max and Power Gravity Toto toilets are available on this site and elsewhere. If this is not the problem, at least you won't be out a fortune.
  5. gholmes1936

    gholmes1936 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Normally, like on my other toto toilet I trip the lever and let go and the flapper goes down slowly. At least slow enough so that the minimum amount of water flows. When I said that it goes down immedeately I meant in a split second the flapper goes down. There is still almo0st half of the water left in the tank. And it's only 1.5 gpf.
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    #1 does it flush right even though the flapper shuts fast?

    #2 Did this just start or has it always been like this.

    #3 Sounds like it could be a handle problem if the chain is adjusted right, not lifting the flapper quite high enough.

    Be sure the handle arm is not contacting the fill valve.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2006
  7. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,052
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Just to re-state what others have already said, in modern low-flow toilets, the 1.6 gal. figure doesn't mean the tank holds only 1.6 gal -- it means 1.6 gal. go from the tank into the bowl.

    The tanks are deliberately designed to hold more water than is actually "flushed" -- the water that stays in the tank serves to provide more "oomph" to that which DOES leave the tank by increasing the "head pressure" (I think it's called).
  8. gholmes1936

    gholmes1936 New Member

    Messages:
    7

    To answer:
    #1. I don't believe it does as it stops up very easily. No evidence of water flowing from the front of the bowl at all! My other toto allows the flap to stay up just long enough so that the correct amount of water empties, as in a slight hesitation before the flapper actually closes.

    #2. It started awhile after the main valve (and flapper) were replaced by a licensed plumber.

    #3. Isn't the handle just a trip lever without any type of delay thing built in? Having watched it many times I can tell you that flapper rod lifts the flapper all the way to the tube.

    I don't understand "Be sure the handle arm is not contacting the fill valve."

    This tank is shorter than our other Toto. It isn't one of those 90's low flow toilet types but it is lower than the other which looks more like a regular toilet. Oh, yeah it is a one piece commode also. :confused:
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]
    Looking inside the MS854114 or CST854 tank.
    The MS854114S has the red flapper.
    Did the tank parts look like this before the repair?

    Lowes sells the right fill valve and the flapper for the Toto Power-Gravity series.
    The Korky quietfill valve is $7.99 and the Korky Toto blue flapper is $9.87
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2006
  10. gholmes1936

    gholmes1936 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    As I remember they did look like those you pictured. I wondered if color was a key to the correct parts or not at the time. There is a number inside the tank, would/could that be the model number? :confused:
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    On the Toto, that would be the toilet number.

    It may be something like CST854, or CST764, something like that.
    The Blue flapper lets out more water than the red one.
  12. gholmes1936

    gholmes1936 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    The model number in the tank is C854 and has a red flapper with a yellow valve assembly. Is this correct or what? I sure appreciate all your time and help Terry. :)
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]
    The Korky is the exact replacement fill valve.

    The 854 is either an Ultimate with blue flapper or the Ultramax with red flapper.
  14. gholmes1936

    gholmes1936 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Thank you so much for all the info Terry. It would seem that since the flapper in the 854 tank is red, that maybe it needs a blue one? Since the blue one lets out more water. Where can I find out for sure. Possibly if I could find the original installation documents it would help a lot.

    Oh, my other Toto is an ST743S and has two different colors in it's insides. :)
  15. gholmes1936

    gholmes1936 New Member

    Messages:
    7

    I purchased the blue KORKY flapper at Lowes and installed it and so far everything is right with the world. :D Thank you so very much Terry.
    George in Austin, Texas
  16. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,052
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    "Short" flush cycle = normal?

    I just had my first Toto experience -- stayed at a hotel in Kansas City with Totos in the rooms. I think it might have been a Drake but not sure. I now understand the sense that folks get when they first use one. Seems like the flapper does come down almost immediately, and in fact when I lifted the tank lid and watched, only a little more than half the tank emptied into the bowl.

    Worked perfectly, every time. Just takes getting used to.
  17. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The tabs of the flush valve allow either the red or the blue.
    Most places seem to carry both colors now.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2006
  18. Spokaneman

    Spokaneman New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Spokane WA

    Curiosity got the better of me so I took the top off of my Vespin an flushed, sure enough only about 2/3 of the volume in the tank was used in the flush. Apparently the additional head (no pun intended) pressure is used to push the flush down. I suppose if you needed more water for a bigger flush, you could hold the handle for a couple of seconds.

    No wonder my wife thinks I'm nuts, most folks just don't care.
  19. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,995
    Location:
    New England
    That's exactly right...the height of the water is part of the engineered means to an end...getting enough velocity to flush with the minimum water. That is also one reason why you need to be careful about the flapper valve you use to replace the original when it eventually goes bad...an incorrectly designed one might close early or late, either not generating a good flush, or wasting water.
  20. rhutchin02@comcast.net

    rhutchin02@comcast.net New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Beverly Massachusetts
    my 854 toto

    The original flapper on my Toto toilet had a plastic "fin" on the other side of the fill pipe. This design delayed the drop of the flapper. With this configuration all was fine. I cannot find this type of replacement. I believe Toto had to have designed this type for a reason. I believe they should step up and solve the issues people are having with rhe early drop of the flapper.
    Is there anyone familiar with the plastic fin I am speaking of?
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