Toto Drake Question

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by elgato, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. elgato

    elgato New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I purchased a Toto Drake from a local plumbing supply. The Drake 2 was tempting but I decided to stay with the Drake 1 just for the 1.6 gallon Gmax. The bowl is a C744EL.

    As I was about to install the tank I noticed that it is a 1.28 gallon (ST743E)

    Does the combination of the C744EL and the ST743E make this an Eco-Drake?


    My options are:

    1. Keep the ST743E 1.2 gal tank.

    2. Winnelson said they no longer stock the ST743S 1.6 gal tank but could order one in for an additional
    charge plus freight.

    3. Winnelson said that they could request the 1.6 gallon fill valve and flapper from Toto to make this tank
    into a 1.6.

    4. Pull it out and simply buy a Drake 2.

    If I knew that I was getting a 1.2 gal Drake, I certainly would have went with the Drake 2 which has Sanagloss.
    Is there much of a performance difference between a 1.2 Drake and a Drake 2?

    So, which of the above makes the most sense?

    Thank You
  2. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    My understanding is that the bowl is the same for both the Drake and EcoDrake; it is the tank that is different. However, technically-speaking, your bowl model number means C[bowl]744[model elongated Drake]E[E-max]L[ADA height]. Did you know you had the ADA Height bowl? Is that what you wanted? On the tank, the model is ST[tank]743[Drake]E[E-Max]. If you look at the parts list for the Eco-Drake Elongated ADA Height CST744EL, you will see that, yes, this is the tank and bowl for the CST744EL toilet. All the different models are shown on the web sites, along with the parts manual that lays out the different combinations.

    I only have experience with the 1.6 gal Drake, but I will mention that another poster on here has both a Drake and an EcoDrake and he swears that the EcoDrake flushes just as well as his Drake, and he likes the fact that it uses less water. I do have two non-sanagloss Toto toilets (Drakes) and one with Sanagloss (Carlyle), and my conclusion is that the Sanagloss is very nice but not essential.

    If it were I and I was in the middle of an install, I would just go ahead and finish it. If after trying it, you don't like it and you want the 1.6 gallons, either take Winnelson up on their offer and swap the fill valve and flapper out (you won't have to pull the tank) or go to ACE and get a Korky 528T (Blue "Fits Toto") fill valve and the Fits Toto Korky red flapper (or go to Lowe's for the silver MaxPerformance adjustable 528MP Korky fill valve and the above flapper; I'm not sure all Lowe's carry the blue 528T), and I think you're in business. (The regular white 528 doesn't provide the right refill ratio for the Toto bowl through the overflow tube, but they all "fit" in the tank.) I'm not even sure you need to replace the fill valve, depending upon which fill valve came with your toilet, but I'm sure the experts will be able to tell you better about that. The point is that all 1.6 and 1.28 toilets have much more water in the tank to provide pressure than is actually discharged with the flush; the flapper closes very quickly, well before the water is drained, so while the fill level may be different in the two setups, it may not be material or you may be able to adjust the existing valve to give you enough water to properly do the 1.6gpf flush. That's just beyond my knowledge level until Terry weighs in on this.

    I don't know what folks think about the difference in flush performance between the Drake and the Drake II, but the Drake II has the double-cyclone flush and the Drake has the G-Max (or E-Max in your case). I have both flushes and I like both.

    Frankly any of the options you mentioned would work fine, except I wouldn't pay an additional charge to the plumbing supply house when you can buy the parts locally or at Lowes to convert for $19-ish.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2012
  3. Runs with bison

    Runs with bison Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    Midwest
    The 1.28 gpf Ecosense Drake I works fine, so I wouldn't worry about that (I have three of them from basement, 1st, to 2nd floor.) Mine are all sanagloss standard height toilets--ADA's have slightly more flushing capacity. If I'm not mistaken you only have to change the flapper and maybe the fill for the 1.6, but why penalize yourself if the 1.28 works? I had this 1.6 gpf alteration as a back up plan when I self installed several sequentially years ago...considerate it a low cost test.

    I would probably try the Drake II given a chance to see how well it handles the occasional "spatter", but it is a different bowl and tank. I don't think Toto or Terry will spot me one just to see if I like it and will post good reviews. (I'm an honest reviewer...if it doesn't improve anything or causes problems, I'll say so even if it costs me...not that the possibility of that would deter Terry.)
  4. elgato

    elgato New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Thank you for the responses.

    I went ahead and finised the install. The quality, fit and finish are excellent and the Drake is very nice looking.
    The flush seems to be comparable to the 1.6's.

    I have a Ultramax 1.6 and the other toilet at this house is a Promenade 1.6. I noticed that the water line is near the ridge in the bowls while the water line on the new Drake is much lower resulting in less water surface area. Is this normal?

    Also, the city lists the 744EF.10 as rebate eligible. I have the 744EL. Whats the difference?

    Thanks Again.
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The CST744EF.10 is CST (Gravity Toilet) 744 (elongated Drake) E (E-Max, what you have) F (Universal Height) .10 (10" rough-in).

    If they rebate the E-Max 10=inch rough-in Universal Height Eco Drake, they should rebate yours.

    More specifically, both toilets use the ST743E tank, which determines how much water is used per flush. You can print out the parts lists and/or spec sheets online. (Note: the parts manual for your toilet in the explanation section just says ST743, at least one version (V.05) does. That's a typo. The actual tank number is shown in the upper left hand corner and it's clearly ST743E.)

    Glad this all worked out for you.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The ST743E tank is a Watersense 1.28 gallon (This one gets the rebates)
    The ST743S tank is a 1.6 gallon flush
  7. elgato

    elgato New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I did not mention my concern about the tiny water surface area to the users. Today after some real world testing they said "its ok but you have to brush it after every use". They have never had any issues with the Promenade.

    Here is a pic of the water surface area.

    http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa246/elgato1981/Toto.jpg



    This is a major problem. Is it normal for this bowl?

    In other Toto's I have seen the water comes up to the small ridge. My Ultramax has a surface area of 10x9.

    Is there any way to bring up the water level in the bowl?

    Thank You
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,852
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Our drakes have a larger waterspot than shown in your photo. However, I do not have the ADA height bowl as you do, so I am not sure if that makes a difference. You can look on youtube and see that most drakes have a water spot as you described the water spots in your other toilets to do. One way to test the natural height of the water spot in the bowl, is to add small increments of water and then let it settle. That"s the way to properly adjust a Korky maxperformance fill valve, which allows you to adjust the refill ratio. Here, I might just use glasses of water until the bowl is filled above the ridges then give it several minutes to let it settle. It is important to check whether yourr toilet is level, as well. Assuming that the natural refill level in your bowl is higher than you are currently achieving, you should check to make sure there are no kinks in the refill hose, and it is properly position to put the water in the overflow tube, as shown in the instructions. Assuming that all is well, you might wish to swap your fill valve under warranty. If for some reason the replacement still does not give you a proper refill, you can always swap it with the maxperformance fill valve, which allows you to choose the refill ratio. However, before you do that, I would solicit comments from actual knowledgeable plumbers on here because there maybe something else going on in your system that's beyond my knowledge.
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Check to make sure that the fill tube is directed into the overflow tube. This is what refills the bowl after a flush.
    Your picture in the post above indicates that something isn't installed right.

    [​IMG]
  10. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Florida
    Yes. See Specs. It makes it a CST744EL Eco-Drake

    Components:
    • C744EL - Elongated Front Bowl
    • ST743E - Tank and Cover only - Left-hand trip lever

    http://admin.totousa.com/Product Downloads/SS-00214, CST744EL, V.05.pdf

    I have BOTH a 1.6 and a 1.28 tank. I swapped tanks and I can't see any difference in flushing ability. In fact I left the 1.28 gal tank on the toilet we use the most.

    Water Spot issue. See my picture for typical water spot for a CST744EL. I suspect as Terry said the fill tube may not be in the proper place in the tank.

    Jerry

    Attached Files:

  11. elgato

    elgato New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    You guys were right about the fill tube. The clip had come loose and it was up against the outside of the tube. I had looked in the tank to check for a water level adjustment and just did not notice it. Embarassing.

    Thanks again to everyone for the advice and recommendations. I really hope the 1.2 tank works out.

    Tom
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