Toto Drake "half" flush

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by EdH, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. EdH

    EdH New Member

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    Nov 1, 2006
    Just installed three Toto Drakes after seeing how well one installed before them worked. I didn't want a low-flush toilet, but this one really works well, even better than the 1950s toilets we had, and the water savings are significant.

    The Drake seems to be even better than the reviews indicate because it seems to have an unadvertised "half-flush" mode. If you just press the lever it seems to use only about half or two thirds of a full flush, but is more than adequate to clear the bowl under most circumstances. If you press and hold the lever it empties more of the water chest. Does anyone know anything about this and why it isn't advertised? It seems like a good feature
     
  2. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    I discovered it by accident also. There may be some risk of the water not being potable after the half-flush, but I don't have dogs any more, so it's not an issue.
     
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  4. JaniceC

    JaniceC New Member

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    Drake 'half flush'

    Hi,

    Does anyone know how the Toto Drake's 'half flush' water volume compares to the Aquia's lower-volume flush?

    We recently installed a Drake in our upstairs bathroom--it works so well that I'd been thinking to install a second one downstairs. But the dual flush technology of the Aquia also intrigues me.

    I've been reading diligently through the many postings here on Drake and Aquia, and no one seems to have compared the two in this way, yet. Any thoughts...?

    Thanks!
    Janice
     
  5. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

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    Actually, as I understand it, when you just hit the lever and let go, that is the 1.6 gal flush. When you hold the handle down, you get more than 1.6 gal.

    If you are so inclined, you can test this theory by marking the water level inside the tank, flushing in the normal fashion, then measuring how much water it takes to refill the tank.

    Modern 1.6 gal toilets do not empty out their tanks. They depend on the > 1.6 gal of water in the tank to help develop a "pressure head" to give the water entering the bowl higher pressure.
     
  6. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Roughly a gallon

    I measured the tank level when full (16.1 cm), and following the "quick flush" (9.3 cm) in my Drake. These depths are (surprisingly) repeatable. The average cross-sectional area of the volume of water between those depths is roughly 588 sq cm, so the volume lost in the flush is 3998.4 cc, or about 1.05 gal. I'll confirm all this math by refilling with a gallon jug sometime and see if it's enough. I underlined "my" above because I've always felt as SteveW does; it's possible my tank doesn't fill as high as it should -- if other Drake owners cold measure their water depths we could get a better sample size.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2006
  7. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

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    Is this an after market discovery fluke
    or an intended feature??

    Mike
     
  8. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

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    Adjustable flappers have always made it possible to get a 1/2 flush. And, who hasn't held down the handle to get a longer flush?
     
  9. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

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    That doesn't answer my question as to whether it's a built in feature or not unique to those Drakes..
    In any event, I have 2 relatively new toilets and haven't had to do that once.
    With the older toilets it was common.

    Mike
     
  10. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

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    I was replying to the original post. I don't know the answer to your question.
     
  11. JaniceC

    JaniceC New Member

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    Mikey,

    I measured the water levels in my Toto Drake tank: 17.2 cm when full, down to 11.4 cm when flushed. ... for what it's worth!

    Janice
     
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Toto only has one toilet (that I'm aware of) that is designed for two stage flushing. As was mentioned, all gravity low-flow toilets are designed to keep some water in the tank to provide head pressure for the flush. Unless you have a lot of finesse, you can't get one of these to short cycle. But, you can get them to empty the tank if you hold the lever down. Don't count on a short-cycle as a reliable feature. For someone not familiar with a low-flow toilet, the short (normal) flush just seems like it can't or won't work - on a well-designed toilet, it does. You normally gain nothing by holding the lever down to empty the tank except for wasting water.
     
  13. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Two data points! Now we can be pollsters :D .
     
  14. JaniceC

    JaniceC New Member

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    Pollsters? "Amen, brotha!"

    Wellllll, despite the Drake's awesome performance and possible 'half flush' abilities (or not), I think I'm going to splurge and make our second toilet an Aquia. Mainly for the coolness factor. Like buying a Prius. Sorta.

    Janice
     
  15. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Yeah, I did that when it was not only cool, but economically justified. I wish the damn gas prices would get back up to $5 or $6 where they belong.
     
  16. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

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    Great choice. Here is another 2006 design architecture award:
    http://tinyurl.com/l8lql

    Had mine for 8 mos. Toto outdid themselves on this one. From a design perspective the toilet was at least 8 years ahead of it's time when it was originally launched in Thailand 7 years ago. Many people say it reminds them of an exotic car.
    The .9 flush feature is very robust. It will exceed your expectations.

    Mike50
     
  17. JaniceC

    JaniceC New Member

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    Nov 12, 2006
    Thanks for the encouragement!
    I just called our local plumbing supply shop and placed my order. Can't wait!~!!

    Is the installation going to be any problem for my plumber, who's never installed one of these critters before? Or are the directions clear enough?

    Janice
     
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    IF you can get them to read the instructions, it isn't hard. If you have tile down on the floor, alert him that he will need to drill holes in the tile (this is different) to mount the adapter to the floor. The adapter attaches to the flange like a normal toilet, then the back end of the adapter is screwed to the floor. If the floor tile is porcelain, this may require a diamond bit. If he has the right tools, it is very straight-forward and quick. Also, double check the offset for the water supply shutoff - I think that it needs to be wider than "normal" toilets on this model.

    Don't let him throw away the special bolts used to attach the seat - they are sort of like an expansion plug, and attach from the top. The set that comes with the seat won't work and can be thrown away - the ones that come with the toilet may not be obvious.
     
  19. JaniceC

    JaniceC New Member

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    Thanks for the tips, Jim-- I'll print this out and share it with our plumber/remodeler. He'll be thrilled... (actually, he SHOULD be thrilled, since he's just starting up his own renovating business, and this Aquia experience will be something cool for him to recommend to future clients...)

    Want to confirm one thing about the seat: a generic one from the big box store will fit as long as we use the special bolts you mention, is that right?

    Janice
     
  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Yes. I've only installed three of these, two in my home, and one at my mother's house. Each of the bowls come with the special bolts stapled to the flap of the box without any info as to what they are for unless you read very carefully. They have a rubber sleeve over the bottom. You set the seat in place, insert the special bolt into the hole and tighten it down. This causes the bottom part of the bolt to bulge out and lock the seat in from the bottom of the hole. On Toto's skirted toilets, the hole is blind (i.e., you can't get to the bottom of it to put on a nut), so without these bolts, you'd never be able to attach it properly.
     
  21. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

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    Really *Great idea* to print out those posts and give Jim's instructions to him.
    I guess Toto stopped selling them with the soft-close seat....and made it an option...??

    Mike
     
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