Toto Drake - Can the flush be adjusted.

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by LaConner Mike, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. LaConner Mike

    LaConner Mike New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    La Conner, Wa
    We have a relatively new Drake, 1.28 gal, model ST743 E. Got it here. Sure wish we could increase the amount of water flushed from the tank. Is there any adjustment capability? And what is that black float above the flapper for?

    If no adjustment capability, can the fill valve and flapper be changed out to attain a 1.6 gal flush? I think that is what I really want to achieve.
  2. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,761
    Location:
    New York, NY
    What's your purpose in wanting to "flush more water"?

    Let us know what specific symptom you are trying to address.

    Properly installed, the Drake has an excellent flush, amazing for the amount of water that it uses. I'm thinking this may be an installation problem more than anything else, or that something got stuck in your trapway (extra wax, tampon, GI Joe Doll, etc.). Did you buy it new? Did you install it yourself (i.e. so you know how it was done)? Is it level? Is your waste pipe clear and properly vented? If you hold the lever down just a second longer, does that totally solve your problem? If not, putting more water in the flush ain't gonna fix anything.

    It's true that the Drake uses very little water. But it generally carts the waste off as well or better than even the 5-gallon monster I replaced with the Drake in my home. So before we start talking about tinkering with it, let's see if we can't make it work the way it is supposed to work for you.

    Do you have the round bowl or the elongated bowl? You gave me the tank number not the toilet number. The tank is the same ST743E for the round toilet (CST743E) and the elongated (CST744E). Just curious what bowl we're dealing with. I also want to know: does the bowl say 1.28 or 1.6 gpf on it? (Toto now only makes one round and one elongated bowl for the Drake, the C743E and C744E; they no longer make the C743S or C744S, which was the bowl for the 1.6; so regardless of whether you have an E or an S tank, you should have an E bowl. I think it may say something like "1.6gpf or less" or something on it. I want to make sure you didn't somehow get an old S bowl with your E tank, although I think it would be pretty out-there if this was your issue; nevertheless, that anyone is unhappy with the Eco-Drake is odd to begin with.) So that's why we're here to help.

    By the way, what you're asking to do is super-easy to do, and you don't even have to replace the fill valve. But even so, literally hundreds of discussions on here have never indicated it to be necessary. You will waste water, even more than 1.6gpf because the refill percentage on the fill valve is gonna be wrong. So before we go there, I want to see whether the problem isn't really something else, and my experience tells me that it likely is. (I know this because the owner of every poorly-designed non-Toto 1.6 gpf toilet, and of every improperly-installed toilet always wants to find a way to dump the whole tank into the bowl, and it never helps. Because the Drake is such a good product on 1.28 or 1.6, adjusting the water flow should be the last thing we look at doing. Indeed, every person we know on here who installed a 1.28gpf Drake in lieu of a 1.6 has said that they absolutely didn't need to try to increase the water flow because they were so happy with the 1.28. It happens over and over and over in this forum, so that's why I'm thinking your problem lies somewhere else and I'm asking all these questions. I look forward to hearing more.)

    And just to give you some hope that we can fix your situation easily, perhaps without having to change the gpf, we had a poster on here not too long ago who was very unhappy with the flush on his Toto. That's a red flag, because he shouldn't be. IIRC, he either gave a great description or linked us a video. Right away, we said it isn't starting with enough water in the bowl. It is essential for the bowl to start with the right amount of water in it, because that's how it's designed to work. Sure enough, when we asked what was up with the refill tube, and whether it was clipped above and pointing into the overflow riser -- duh, no it wasn't. The guy connected it properly, flushed once, the toilet bowl refilled properly and thus started the next flush with enough water in it, and since has continued to perform like a champ. The owner was then happy as a clam.

    Work with us, and I'm sure you will be too.

    PS Here's roughly what the flush should look like:

    [video=youtube;mvJ8brfaaz0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvJ8brfaaz0[/video]

    Link to same toilet flushing paper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_TP7mrVW0
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  3. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,298
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Another possible problem if you used a wax ring with a plastic funnel on the end. These can get squished over the flange when installing and partly block the flush. We generally suggest when only one ring is needed to use a plain ring. If two rings are needed, then the horned ring can go on top of the plain ring. This would be in cases where the flange was recessed below the finished flooring.
  4. LaConner Mike

    LaConner Mike New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    La Conner, Wa
    I'll try to answer some of your questions.

    This is a Toto Drake, Tank model ST 743 E, 1.28 Gpf. Bowl is elongated, can't find a bowl model # but is stamped, "For 1.6 Gpf or less". Purchased on June 21, 2012 from Terry Love. I did the install. Floor was level, used one wax ring with a plastic/neoprene horned funnel. Bottom of the drain flange was on plane with the top surface of finished floor.

    There is no evidence that the vent is plugged or drain line is obstructed in any way. Problem is not with water being evacuated from the bowl. It's with the amount of water leaving the tank into the bowl. I'm only getting 3 quarts per flush. And yes, if I continue to hold the level down, the tank will empty. Over the years I've bought and installed at least a half-dozen Drakes from Terry. This is the only one I've had any issue with.

    So now back to my original question: Is there any adjustment capability? And what is the black float above the flapper for?
  5. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,298
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    I'll repeat my comment about the wax ring with the plastic horn. These are known to sometimes create problems and should be avoided when only one ring is needed. Might not be the problems, but if it was me, I'd pull the toilet and change to a plain wax ring. Also, use a second nut on the closet bolts to hold them firmly in an upright position. This can help in setting the toilet squarely onto the flange and avoid squishing the wax ring over the flange. If that's not you problem, you will have at least eliminated it.
  6. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,761
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Not to be a prick about it, but if the thing works, why do you want more water? What's the symptom? What's it not doing?

    Three quarts isn't too far off of what should be leaving the tank on the flush itself, because the refill water is a quart or so. The "1.28 gpf" should be the amount of water running through the supply pipe between the time you pull the flush handle to the time it shuts off.

    The black thing is often called a "weight" on here, but Toto calls it a "float". Regardless, it was added to the setup in order to control the timing of the closing of the flapper. Apparently, the updated version of the "E" flapper doesn't have this thing on the chain. They get the flapper to close when they want it to without the need for that thing.

    From your response, it appears that you consider yourself to be well-versed in installing Drakes, so maybe the following is something you already know: the proper starting tank water level is embossed in the tank, in the form of instructions. Usually it's something like 1/2" below the top of the overflow riser. If you have the Voreto fill valve (the one with the white screw), you can adjust the tank water level by turning the screw clockwise to increase and counterclockwise to decrease. If you have the Korky valve (the one with no external moving parts), it's a bit more complicated, but come back and I can walk you through it. This is all consistent with my idea that we should see if you're satisfied with the thing when it works the way it is supposed to.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  7. CarlH

    CarlH New Member

    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Yes.

    If you change just the flapper, it will use more than 1.6 GPF. Not only will it use more water when you flush, but too much water will be used for the bowl refill. If you change the fill valve, that will correct the overfilling of the bowl caused by the flapper change.

    Everybody is curious as to why you want to make the change. Are you having some sort of problem?
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,802
    Location:
    New England
    WHen measuring the water use, you have to not only add the water that goes into the tank to refill it (probably the 3-quarts you measured), but also the water that goes down the overflow to refill the bowl. That is normally the 'rest' of the water. If it's flushing all the 'goods' down, don't waste water by forcing it to use more.
  9. DaMan

    DaMan New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Vancouver, Wa


    Dude, Why did you buy a 1.28gpf toilet when you wanted a 1.6 gpf toilet? I had three Drake's installed in my house after the flapper in my $39.99 contractor special toilet flooded my master bath and downstairs kitchen. (there was a can light right below the upstair toilet. What are the odds?) I am shocked and amazed how much flush power these toilets have. For only 1.28 gallons, I can proudly say that these toilets do a good job. BTW, the $39.99 contractor special was installed by the builder when he built my neighborhood. I wish builders would install nice quality toilets when they build a neighborhood. If I am paying $200,000 for a house, I would expect a little better quality toilets. In all serious, be happy with the TOTO toilets. They do a good job. Really!
  10. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,298
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Toilets are likely only one of the places the builders go cheap. Their problem is of course, trying to keep the price of the house as low as possible and still maintain their profit margin. If they put top quality appliances and fixtures in the home, they would have to either raise the price of the home or take a loss on the appliances. Agreed it is a bad compromise, but it's a cut throat business.
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