Toto Dalton Toilet

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Hi everyone. Back in October '09, I posted asking for advice on Toto toilets. We ended up getting the Dalton (with round rather than elongated bowl). Just wanted to post back to say that we are very happy with it. So far (knock on wood), no problems whatsoever. It's fast, quick, pretty quiet, and the bowl stays super-clean. Nice-looking, too (as toilets go). So thanks to all for the greatly appreciated assistance. :)

cst733f-01.jpg


Here is the elongated CST734F
 
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bikeman

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Hi - due to space in the bathroom, we need a round bowl. Is your Dalton ADA height or normal? What prompted the Dalton over the other TOTO? We're in the research phase and I'll install it myself. Any tips? thanks,
 

DaveT

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I am definitely in the minority in this Forum, but I am not satisfied with my Toto Dalton. I installed one in a remodel in 2005, moved to a new house last year that has 3 of them, and all suffer from the same issue. The flush is great, the bowl wash is "piss poor". BTW, all are ADA Elongated.

There is no delicate way to put this, but I occasionally have explosive BM's, which results in waste above the water line all around the bowl. The straight-down wash is fine in the front, but is spotty around the rest of the bowl. I can watch the water streams and actually see many, many areas that are untouched by the wash. So I spend far more time cleaning the bowl surfaces than I would ever spend with an extra occasional flush.

I think the teflon cleaners help a bit, but this is not good performance as far as I am concerned. And yes, the holes under the rim are clear. Based on my personal experience, I will never buy a toilet that has straight-down bowl wash.

Just my opinion.
 

avocent

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Dalton sucks. Same observations as below.... no cleaning above water line on sides of bowl. Very weak water streams don't do the job.

I am definitely in the minority in this Forum, but I am not satisfied with my Toto Dalton. I installed one in a remodel in 2005, moved to a new house last year that has 3 of them, and all suffer from the same issue. The flush is great, the bowl wash is "piss poor". BTW, all are ADA Elongated.

There is no delicate way to put this, but I occasionally have explosive BM's, which results in waste above the water line all around the bowl. The straight-down wash is fine in the front, but is spotty around the rest of the bowl. I can watch the water streams and actually see many, many areas that are untouched by the wash. So I spend far more time cleaning the bowl surfaces than I would ever spend with an extra occasional flush.

I think the teflon cleaners help a bit, but this is not good performance as far as I am concerned. And yes, the holes under the rim are clear. Based on my personal experience, I will never buy a toilet that has straight-down bowl wash.

Just my opinion.
 
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I agree with the sentiments here regarding the bowl wash for the Toto Dalton (CST734F).
Although the flushing power is very good, the bowl wash is absolutely terrible. The bowl wash is merely a bunch of singular streams of water going down the bowl....It consistently misses stuff that isn't in the path of the singular streams of water....


Is there any retro-fix or any way to improve the bowl wash?
The toilet is only a year old and I don't want to spend the money on replacing it....

Thanks.
mm
 

Terry

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My experience with the bowl is that it did rinse well.
It certainly worked better then the Kohler Cimarron bowl that was manufactured during the same time period.
I would check the holes under the rim and make sure they are not blocked. A coat hanger works.

Replacing the bowl is not an option. The Dalton is discontinued.
For the rinse to work correctly, it must start off clean.
I recommend a liquid bowl cleaner on any new bowl to remove any dirt from the factory.
And I like to use liquid bowl cleaner on a regular basis. A cleaned bowl will stay cleaner longer.
A dirty bowl lets more dirt stick to eat and disturbs the laminar flow of the bowl rinse. The water never drills down past the dirt that the homeowner has let build up.

I hope you car gets a wash every so often. Mine does.
 
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I think the fact that the Dalton is discontinued speaks volumes.

I can't explain why Terry's evaluation of the Dalton bowl wash was so opposite of mine and several others that posted here. I can only speculate that he tested it with "well-behaved" bowel movements. And my wife doesn't complain, though that doesn't excuse the flawed design in my mind. I just know that if I have waste particles above the water line, the flush doesn't touch some percentage of them, and I better brush them off immediately after the flush or they will stick as if glued on.

I also speculate the if Toto's premium finish, SaniGloss, had been available on the Dalton, that might have made a difference, though I know that some areas are regularly untouched by bowl wash water. As I stated earlier, the under rim holes are clean, the "teflon" bowl cleaners are of very limited help; holding the handle down to empty the tank helps some, by giving more water for the flush as a whole. And as a reminder, my experience is with a total of 4 units, the first that I bought for a bathroom redo, and the other 3 in a house I purchased afterwards. I even recall the realtor proudly pointing out that the toilets were "Toto!!". I suspected they were Daltons, but bought the house anyway.
 
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Terry

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I installed Dalton's in my brothers Whidbey Island home.
He was bragging about them yesterday to a nurse. He had a Kohler Cimarron for a while, and didn't like that.

So it's not just me. There are others that have had a good experience with them too. I think it has more to do with the better pricing that I get on the Drake models now as to why they have consolidated their models.

I never did sell the Caruso, though I do see those in Canada when I travel.
 
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The holes are fine. No clogs.
It's the spaces between the holes above the waterline where no water cleans the bowl that is the problem...no water, no cleaning....
Oh well, I guess I have to live with this.

When I redo my main upstairs bathroom, I'm definitely gonna have to find another option.






My experience with the bowl is that it did rinse well.
It certainly worked better then the Kohler Cimarron bowl that was manufactured during the same time period.
I would check the holes under the rim and make sure they are not blocked. A coat hanger works.

Replacing the bowl is not an option. The Dalton is discontinued.
 

Jadnashua

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Toto's latest update is the 'Double Cyclone' flush. This has two horizontal outlets near the top that force the water to swirl around the bowl. I don't have a problem with the older models in my home, but keep in mind that diet can make a big difference on whether you get skid marks or not.
 

DaveT

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Let's see:

* The Dalton has been discontinued.

* Toto has introduced a new flush system, the Double Cyclone, which quoting from their web page:
"Double Cyclone features:Two nozzles (instead of rim holes) use water more efficiently for a better rim and bowl wash and result in less trapped dirt and bacteria and less cleaning."
And this is also from their literature on Double Cyclone:
Competitive toilets, with traditional rim hole designs, concentrate on just removing sinking bulk, while giving an uneven performance in other areas of the flush: Sinking Floating Bowl Clean Rim Wash
TOTO Double Cyclone toilets offer a balanced performance across all areas of a flush.


All of the observations offered in this forum are anecdotal, including mine, but it is time to acknowledge that the Dalton is [was!] NOT a good design, and has serious short-comings in its bowl wash performance. Just because it was made by Toto doesn't mean it was good. And apparently Toto realizes that. If the new design does indeed get good flush AND bowl wash while still getting down to 1.28 GPF, good for them! I take note, too, that the Double Cyclone is paired with CEFIONTECT, which I also commented on.

Of course, it doesn't matter now since Dalton is discontinued, but it reinforces my earlier comment to beware of a toilet with a straight-down bowl wash.
 

Jadnashua

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Toto's entry level toilet, the Dalton, flushes without clogging, better than other entry level toilets. Nobody ever said you get Mercedes quality for Chevy prices.
 

Gary Swart

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I think the OP is being a bit harsh on the Dalton by saying there were not a "good design". While it may be true the model was discontinued because better performance from other models, such as the Drake, could be sold for not much more than the Dalton, it was not necessarily a bad design as it outperformed many other more expensive models offered by other manufacturers. Many models have been improved since first marketed, new models have been added, and other models discontinued. State of the art in technology is always improving in virtually everything, but to say the originals were not good designs is going a bit fair IMHO.
 

SamC

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I have a 1.6 gallon Drake that has straight down rim holes, and I very rarely have a problem with skid marks. The holes, especially at the front of the bowl are large diameter, and put out a wide sheet of water, not a narrow stream. Was there some significant difference between the straight down rim holes on the Dalton and the ones on the Drake?
 

Jadnashua

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I think you're still missing the point...many of the entry level toilets do not clear the bowl on the first flush...the Dalton does. In that manner, it excells most others in its price point. Not all people have a problem with skid marks - it's a function of several things: some people perch on the edge of the seat and it doesn't hit the water spot, some people don't have enough roughage in their diet. Older toilets flooded the bowl with many gallons of water. Regulations now restrict that. It costs more to get everything...but, as the technology improves, those improvements trickle down to the lower end. You see that all the time in cars and other products. I'd rather have a toilet that removed all the waste on the first shot. The newest ones address more 'issues'; many of the other entry level products still can't flush it all on the first shot.
 
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I think you're still missing the point...many of the entry level toilets do not clear the bowl on the first flush...the Dalton does. In that manner, it excells most others in its price point. Not all people have a problem with skid marks - it's a function of several things: some people perch on the edge of the seat and it doesn't hit the water spot, some people don't have enough roughage in their diet. Older toilets flooded the bowl with many gallons of water. Regulations now restrict that. It costs more to get everything...but, as the technology improves, those improvements trickle down to the lower end. You see that all the time in cars and other products. I'd rather have a toilet that removed all the waste on the first shot. The newest ones address more 'issues'; many of the other entry level products still can't flush it all on the first shot.


To be clear, I never said I had a problem with skid marks or inadequate flushing power. Rather, the main complaint I have is the bowl area ABOVE the water line does not get fully cleaned no many how many times you flush. The water runs out of the bowl rim in single streams and never fully washes the entire bowl. "Items" that do not lie on the side of the bowl directly in line with a stream of water coming out of the bowl rim will not be cleaned, thereby requiring a scrub with the toilet brush.

This is the same point DaveT is trying to make.


So, yes, I would expect even the cheapest toilet would at least clean the sides of the bowl.
 

Terry

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Was there some significant difference between the straight down rim holes on the Dalton and the ones on the Drake?

I don't know why that guy keeps posting.

* Discontinued model, Dalton

* I had one installed in my home and liked it for the money

* Sold two to my brother on Whidbey and he liked them

* Worked better then the Kohler Cimarron of the same age, which sold for "more" money.

* Sheer goofiness. It's a 1.6 bowl, and all 1.6 bowls need more cleaning then the 3.5 bowls.
 

DaveT

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I don't know if anyone is still lurking here, but I was one of the original, very critical, posters regarding the Dalton's bowl wash - or rather, lack of bowl wash.

I have not moved, have not seen fit to replace the Daltons, and still have the same opinion of the bowl wash design. I have tried numerous things the try to improve the bowl wash - various cleaners, with bleach, Fluidmaster system, even car wax - all to no avail. One day I was cleaning out the bathroom closet and came across a container of Lime Away. I thought, Why not? It worked!!

Squirt some around the bowl, let it sit a few minutes, then vigorously rub it off. It removes mineral build-up and results in the wash water "spreading" much better, and removing a good portion of "light spatter" that previously would have been missed by the bowl wash water streams.

You have to repeat the process every week or so, but it eliminates a lot of bowl brushing, at least for people like me.
 
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