Toilet Needs 4 Inch Flange – What Fits?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by Tom Finlay, May 16, 2014.

  1. Tom Finlay

    Tom Finlay New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Oregon
    Any advice on this will be much appreciated!

    I’m dealing with an old (1940s) existing toilet that requires a four inch flange, due to the fact that the discharge outlet on the bottom of the base will not seat on a three inch flange. I tried. Using one of those flanges that say 4 X 3 does not work, the base of the toilet just will not seat properly. I ‘inherited’ this system from a previous owner, and the toilet has to be moved a couple of feet due to a bathroom remodel.

    The existing flange and soil(?) pipe are sized down from 4 to 3 inches, and the rest of the waste plumbing, including the exit from the building to the septic system, is 3 inches. My questions have to do with buying the right plumbing parts online. There are no large home hardware stores nearby to look at things!

    Questions are:

    What is the outside diameter of the down pipe on a 4 inch flange, and its pipe, that says it has a ‘spigot’ opening? (Not a hub opening.)

    Would that pipe fit into a 4 X 3 adapter coupling, which has female (hub) openings?

    I know that this is the opposite way in which these adapter couplings are intended to be used, but I’m not able to convert the waste lines to four inch, and besides, the home only has two toilets, and the three inch waste line meets code for a two bedroom place – which the home is.

    This forum looks very informative. Thanks for listening...

    Tom
  2. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,246
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    The O.D. of a water closet flange is not different for 3 and 4 inch drain so it would seem that you have a different problem. Maybe if you post a picture of your installed flange we will see something that you do not.
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    A 4x3 closet 90 with 4" closet flange is what you want.
    Since you are moving the location anyway, it' shouldn't be a big deal. I normally pick up a 4x3 with sipgot on the large end that the closet flange glues down on.
    A 40's home may be lead, or cast iron. Either way, you have some work to do.

    New toilets tend to have trapways that are 2-1/8", and work fine on a standard 4x3 closet flange.
    We pull out 40's toilets all the time.
  4. Tom Finlay

    Tom Finlay New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Oregon
    Sorry, I wasn't very clear, or didn't elaborate enough. It's not a 1940s home, just a 1940s toilet. No cast iron, all ABS. I built the home myself, beginning in 1975. It's a log building. The toilet was installed for 'ambiance,' to match the claw foot bathtub, and has all new brass works inside - redone by Hippo Hardware in Portland.

    With the new location, the waste pipe will be almost directly below where the toilet flange/toilet will be located. A straight shot. But, it's a 3 inch soil(?) pipe that I need to mate a 4 inch flange to.

    I'm not good at asking the right questions, let me try again: Is there any style or brand of 4 inch ABS closet flange that has a spigot outlet with an outside diameter of 4 1/4 inches (same as the outside diameter of Sch 40 4 inch ABS pipe), around 4 to 5 inches long, which would then fit into the 4 inch hub of a 4 X 3 adapter coupling (ABS001170600HA)?

    If so, I can then glue the 3 inch hub end of this adapter over the existing 3 inch vertical waste line that's just below where the new flange/toilet will be. Straight down. So, the sequence would be flange and its (spigot?) pipe, 4 X 3 adapter (normally used - I suppose - to adapt 3 inch to 4 inch), and then the existing 3 inch waste line down to the existing 3 inch sanitary tee. All ABS.

    Anyone sell a flange that fits that description?

    Thanks again!
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I thought I answered your question above.
    Any hardware store carries those parts. I use a 4x3 all the time on ABS when needed. On my commercial roughs I do it that way too. That way if the walls get missed by the frammers, I have some leeway when I go to set the bowl.
  6. Tom Finlay

    Tom Finlay New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Oregon
    Sorry, you no doubt did answer my question, but these in-house plumbing terms used by experienced plumbers are not familiar to me at all. Like what a 4X3 is, unless that's what any adapter that sizes from 4 in. down to 3 in. (or the opposite) is called.

    If I buy any 4 in. closet flange, with, say, a stainless ring, will the abs pipe part (if spigot) be the same diameter as 4 in. ABS Sch. 40 pipe? If so, then I'll know what to order online. Local hardware stores here don't carry (in stock) any 4 in. flanges, or the sort of straight 4X3 adapter I think that I need.

    Is that a flange with a 4 in. hub to glue on the 4X3 with spigot?

    My knowledge of closet flanges (based on what I've actually seen) is limited to a part with a ring at the top with slots for toilet hold-down bolts and counter-sunk holes for screws, and a section of ABS pipe (the one I saw is three inch) that extends down a few inches from the ring.

    Would a straight down 4 in. flange with spigot and a stainless ring include a section of ABS pipe that's the same diameter as 4 in. Sch 40 pipe? If so, that will solve my problem.

    Again, my apologies for my lack of understanding some of these plumbing terms. I worked in food banking for 25 years before retiring, and we have a lot of in-house terms in that biz that the general public hasn't heard. Your patience is appreciated.
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