Toilet install question

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by DIYourselfer, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. DIYourselfer

    DIYourselfer New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    New York
    The horn (Right term?) on the toilet is just about level with the base of the toilet. Maybe 1/16 lower at most:

    [​IMG]

    The I.D. is 2.5 inches and the depth of the horn is 5/8

    [​IMG]

    The closet flange is 4 3/4 wide at the top and 3 1/2 inches at the bottom

    [​IMG]

    The top of the closet flange is about 1/8 below the floor tile in the front and about 1/4 below the tile in the rear. The cement floor dipped in that area and to keep the tile level back there I added more thinset underneath it.

    [​IMG]

    As far as the wax ring goes: So basically when the toilet is down over the flange with no wax the max difference between the top of the flange and the bottom of the toilet where the wax ring rests is 5/8 plus 1/4 which is 7/8.

    Should I use 1 thick wax ring with a horn(1 1/4 thick horn is 2 1/2 ID) or 2 1 inch thick rings with no horns? I haven't seen a 1 1/4 wax ring without a horn. I am a little worried that if I use no horn then some of the lead solder you see here might catch paper when it comes out of the toilet. Of course the toilet will be centered and the paper and stuff should drop straight down into the hole so not using a horn should be ok.
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,335
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Never use a wax ring with a horn. These are a gimmick that cause more problems than they ever cure. First thing I'd do is to set the toilet in place without a ring. Check to see that the skirt rests on the tile and that there is no rocking. If there is rocking, use shims where necessary to stop the rock. Mark where the shims go, then move the toilet off the flange and put a thick wax ring on the flange. Use your body weight to push the toilet down compressing the wax until the skirt is touching the floor. Put the shims in place if there are needed. Snug the flange bolts down. Do not use the flange bolts to pull the toilet into the wax, the bolts are just to hold the toilet in place and prevent movement. After checking everything for solidity, caulk the sides and front with latex caulk. Leave the back open.
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,937
    Location:
    New England
    Ideally, the flange would sit on top of the finished floor. You could add a flange extender and use a normal wax ring. Or, you could go with one of the waxless seals made by Fernco or Fluidmaster (the two brands I know of). I've used the Fluidmaster. Note, the waxless rings require that the inside of the pipe be fairly clean and smooth to make a seal. If that isn't the case, then don't use them, and use the wax.
  4. DIYourselfer

    DIYourselfer New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    New York
    I can't seem to find a thick wax ring without the horn on it. Do they make one?
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,937
    Location:
    New England
    Yes, they are made. Might have to go to a real plumbing supply store. You can take two 'normal' ones and stack them on top of each otherflat to flat.
  6. DIYourselfer

    DIYourselfer New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    New York
    I went to 3 plumbing supply places and they don't carry the thick wax rings W/O the horn. It looks like I will have to use 2 thin ones. So you are saying I should place the first ring upside down(flat side up) on the flange and then place the second ring on top of the first one(flat side down) and then place the toilet on top of that?
  7. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,244
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    That is correct, and not an uncommon installation.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,529
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Using a ring with a horn is not the ideal, usually. But if you use two regular wax seals there is NO WAY to guarantee that the excess wax will not be squeezed into the pipe. Either use the thick one with a horn, or use two thin ones, but use one with the horn for the top one so it forces the wax to squeeze outward when compressed.
  9. pwjone1

    pwjone1 Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Although this thread is a bit old (and for myself, I'd let a plumber do this, save yourself some back pain), but I have pretty much the same problem on three toilets in my house, only one of the closet flanges is anywhere near where it should be, the main problem being they're set too low. And the plumbers have generally used 2 wax rings, no horns, as suggested above. Still, I've had one leak, so this presents some challenges, even to to the Pros. But I was in Lowes looking at faucets (significant other decided she doesn't like the "look" of the ones we have, bit of a surprise to me, but she did legitimately point out how they were hard to clean, so maybe she's right, anyway we're faucet shopping), and of course if I were looking for this, I wouldn't find it, but I stumbled across:


    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jjjHDkvYURtDrGF4-ZV9CA?feat=directlink

    Sorry about the quality of the picture, phone pic, not the best. This is a closet flange extender, 1/4" to 1/2" extension. As near as I can dig up a web-site, this looks like the manufacturer:

    http://www.quickfix****************.com/prod02.htm

    Might be the ticket out of problems like mine (and the thread originator's), so posting it here for general reference. Might buy one myself for next time I have the plumber through.
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