Toilet Flush Problem

Users who are viewing this thread

Lone Gunman

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia
Website
www.motorsportsvillage.com
This is my first post and if it's in the wrong section, please move it.

I've got a toilet flush problem. The house is 15 years old and the problem just started about 2 years ago and seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

What happens is when the toilet is flushed it doesn't empty until it's flushed a second time and it does this whether there's anything in it to flush or not, ie, no waste or toilet tissue, same problem. It doesn't do this all the time, but does about 90% of the time. There are two toilets in the house that dump in the main line a short distance apart. The other toilet only requires a second flush OCCASIONALLY when there's something in it, which is what the both did when they were new.

Recently I bought one of those toilet augers and ran it down both toilets and got nothing when I pulled it back yet the flush problem is still there. I've adjusted the float and flapper valve settings to put more water in the flush and still no difference.

I never have any gray water backup in the tub or shower and the sinks, tub and shower seem to drain fine.

Any help?

Thanks
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,942
Reaction score
3,459
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
For the siphon to work, the bowl needs to start with the right amount of water in it. Make sure the water level is correct. Check to see if the fill tube from the fill valve is directed into the overflow. This is what refills the bowl.
Using a closet auger to clear the trapway is good. We use one from a plumbing supply with a larger end on it than the ones I see at home centers.
The small augers may slip right by the item in the trapway that is slowing the flush down. We use a larger auger, and even then we sometimes need to pull the bowl and work it from the other end.

I'm currently reading this book about a fictional mining town in West Virginia
http://www.otherpress.com/books/whisper-hollow/
 
Last edited:

Lone Gunman

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia
Website
www.motorsportsvillage.com
Hey thanks for your reply. Actually I'm not in W. Va?? Don't know how that got there?? I'm about 15 miles East of Lynchburg, Va. My grandmother was born in W Va though.

Say, is there a chance that TOO much water being dumped in the bowl could cause problems? Is there a particular height the water level needs to be and also how far up the chain the float should be from the flapper valve?

The old house I moved out of was built back in the mid 70s and that old toilet never ever gave me any problems. These "water savers" that were put in this new house in 2000 have never worked like the old ones did?? "We can fix it!" Yeah, right. Makes no sense to have a toilet that takes two flushes to accomplish what one flush used to do especially when I have a well and a septic system and every drop of water I use goes back in the ground? Go figure! [/rant]
 

Cameron Fields

Undergraduate
Messages
137
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Location
Florida
Are you on septic?? If you are it might be time to pump. If also regardless if you are on septic or not try to blow the vent lines clear a clog could cause this as well. I had the same problem for almost a year. Good Luck
 

Lone Gunman

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia
Website
www.motorsportsvillage.com
Are you on septic?? If you are it might be time to pump. If also regardless if you are on septic or not try to blow the vent lines clear a clog could cause this as well. I had the same problem for almost a year. Good Luck

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I have a septic system, BUT, there's no backup in the tub or shower so that shouldn't be the problem. Keep in mind also that this system is in a ground floor house, ie, no basement or up stairs.

RE: Vent?? I had thought about that but it happens on the first flush and NOT on both toilets? The vent is up on the roof so at 70 years old it's kinda hard for me to get up there anymore.

As I mentioned up the page, it happens mostly on one of the two toilets in the house so I think I'm going to experiment with the float/flapper valve setting and water level in the tank on that one before I pay someone to "snake" the vent.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Try holding the lever down longer on the problem tank. That will keep the flapper open later to see if more water per flush would help.

Try pouring water from a 5 gallon bucket held as high as practical and as fast as the toilet can take it. If there is some partial obstruction, that might wash it away.

Consider a newer more modern toilet with a smooth trapway.
 

Lone Gunman

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia
Website
www.motorsportsvillage.com
Try holding the lever down longer on the problem tank. That will keep the flapper open later to see if more water per flush would help.

Try pouring water from a 5 gallon bucket held as high as practical and as fast as the toilet can take it. If there is some partial obstruction, that might wash it away.

Consider a newer more modern toilet with a smooth trapway.


Holding that lever down only makes it worse as far as I can tell. That is one reason I thought that too much water was being dumped into it.

RE: 5 gallon bucket to clean it out? Hummm, if there was a restriction in it wouldn't the snake have broken it loose?

As long as I can make this one flush on the 2nd or 3rd try I probably won't spend the money to put a new one in.

Thanks all for the advice. I guess tomorrow I'll mess with the flapper valve to see what that will do.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
RE: 5 gallon bucket to clean it out? Hummm, if there was a restriction in it wouldn't the snake have broken it loose?
Big snake is it?

A big waste can, or a small plastic garbage can could work to try the big flow treatment. If it doesn't help, it was worth a try.

While I cannot say why the identical toilet works well elsewhere in the house, you still would probably benefit from a modern toilet with a streamlined trapway.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
The maximum water level in a bowl is self-regulating...any excess will just run over the weir and down the drain. That's one reason why it's important to have the right fill valve...some of the replacements do not have the proper balance between the tank and the bowl, and either do not refill the bowl, leading to poor flushing, or excess, which just goes down the drain during the refill.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,770
Reaction score
1,190
Points
113
Location
New England
The maximum water level in a bowl is self-regulating...any excess will just run over the weir and down the drain. That's one reason why it's important to have the right fill valve...some of the replacements do not have the proper balance between the tank and the bowl, and either do not refill the bowl, leading to poor flushing, or excess, which just goes down the drain during the refill.
 

Lone Gunman

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia
Website
www.motorsportsvillage.com
you still would probably benefit from a modern toilet with a streamlined trapway.

Big snake? Well it was the size that Lowe's had and was listed for Toilets? I ran it in and out a half dozen times and it showed nothing on the hook at the end when I brought it out?

So the toilets that were installed new here back in 2000 were not "streamlined trapway" types? They are American Standard 1.6gpf toilets? Got a part number for something better that I can go look at to see if there's a difference? Here's a picture of what I have.

toilet_bg_bowl.jpg


Google search for "streamlined trapway toilet" brought back nothing.

Water level in the tank of the problem toilet was 1/2" higher than the other. Changed the float height to match the other one and the flapper float was at the same height as the other one once the water level was lowered, ie, now both are the same as the one that was working "semi" OK. Still no change in the flush problem toilet though.

Got a 5 gallon bucket and poured that down that toilet twice and both times it emptied within about 3 seconds and almost completely emptied the bowl? So there doesn't seem to be any restrictions there.

Still wont' flush correctly though. I think I might try emptying the tank and pouring some drain cleaner down under the flapper valve to clean out the ports around the toilet rim where it runs into the bowl. I took a mirror and looked under there but didn't see anything unusual? Can't see inside though and that may be where the problem is.

Thanks all for the help.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
img_3.png
Got a part number for something better that I can go look at to see if there's a difference? Here's a picture of what I have.

Which is the AS Cadet 3 or the Toto Drake II:

cst454_trapway.jpg


Of course you have a logical observation that you have two identical toilets that work fine. I don't know what is different. But a newer toilet would at least work around the problem I expect. The cleaner cleaning the holes? Might work. But swapping toilets is less work, and I think it has a much better chance of giving you a great result.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Lone Gunman

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia
Website
www.motorsportsvillage.com
Reach4 thanks for the pics. At least now I know now there IS a difference but $400 for a new toilet just isn't in my budget right now. Thanksgiving, Christmas, property taxes, car insurance and homeowners insurance pretty much killed what I had saved through the year. Retirement is nice but it doesn't pay much, ie, interest rates on my retirement savings is "in the toilet" [pun intended ;-)] so if a new toilet is what it's going to take, it's going to have to wait until about March of next year.

Thanks again all for the input. You have "enlightened" me and that shows that you CAN teach an old dog new tricks!
 

Lone Gunman

New Member
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia
Website
www.motorsportsvillage.com
I FIXED IT!

Today I got a chair and sat down in front of that thing with a piece of coat hanger wire bent so I could access those holes that dump water from the rim. Problem was, I didn't see anything that looked like a problem there but still had the problem when I finished???


So, having exhausted most every other option I could think of I happened to notice that 3/4" hole that's in the bottom that shoots water across the bottom front to back and decided to stick my finger in it just to see if it was open. Low and behold that hole had stuff in it that felt almost like rocks but was stuck like glue? So, I took that piece of coat hanger and bent it again and started picking at that stuff, and some of it broke loose and came out. It looks almost like small pieces of gravel but I'm wondering if it's something that was left over from curing that porcelain in the kiln? Picked out about 3 chunks that were a little larger than a pencil eraser and some smaller stuff came out as well. After that it flushes first time every time, but, we haven't tried it with a "load" in it yet? ;)

Ennywho, I've flushed that thing probably over a dozen times since just to hear it gulp. So much so that the Wife got tickled at me and laughs when I do it.

So a final thanks to all again for the suggestions and such and it will be good to have this thread here for others to read that "might" help them find a similar problem.

Lone Gunman out!
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks