Toilet flange question

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mattswabb

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New member here and my first post.

I am currently redoing a half bath in our 1910 home and returning it to that period. We bought a vintage low tank toilet.

I pulled the old one out and the floor had been patched and there was a pvc push in flange there. My new old toilet would cover the patch and the flange was too high. So I removed the flange.

The question I have is what needs to be done? The flange on the bottom of the toilet sets about a inch lower than the rest. It fits inside the 4" pipe.

The pipe is 4" and the top inch or so is lead and flush to the finished floor.

Would the pipe have had a flange? Would the wax ring set right on the wood floor?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Matt

Here's a few pics.

mattswab-01.jpg


After I fix the flange I'll replace the floor around it.

mattswab-02.jpg
 
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Terry

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You need some sort of flange there. The wax does not set on the wood.
Also I see what looks to be a crack in your lead on the far side.
I would consider removing the lead and putting in something better. Sometimes they pounded that lead pipe outward to create a flange. With that crack, it's not looking good.
 

mattswabb

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Thanks. The crack is actually from my saw when I cut out the pvc flange. I assumed it was cast all the way up and wasn't careful enough.

So I should buy a cast flange long enough to get below the floor and set it flush then lead it in there.
 

Jadnashua

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The soft lead elbow cannot reliably use any modern toilet flanges...it is designed to be bent over a brass or bronze ring. Because it is soft, you cannot just install anything else reliably, and the slot you ended up cutting into it would be hard to reliably repair. It's going to be a pain unless you have easy access from below. I'd guess you need to go back to the hub where the lead connects, you'll probably find that it has a brass sleeve leaded into the hub, and the lead was then soldered to the brass. You'll need to remove all of that, clean out the hub, and build it up from there with modern materials, or cut off the CI lower and build up from there. WHen you're done, ideally, the new flange is sitting on top of the FINISHED floor, and anchored through it to the subflooring.
 

mattswabb

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So I went to the plumbing store today and showed the guy the picture. He sold me a lead flange to that's about 6" long and brass ring. He said to replace the floor up to the pipe, then slip in the lead flange and screw down the brass ring over it.

I'll post a pic when it's done.
 

Reach4

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Nice. You might want to also post a picture of the thing you bought before it is installed. Maybe fill that saw kerf with silicone? Soldering it shut would probably take too much skilled practice.
 

mattswabb

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I'll take pics of what I bought and after installation. The new piece will fit inside the damaged cut area by I will at a minimum silicone it.
 

Jadnashua

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I think you're asking for problems doing it the way you are planning. A silicon seal between the existing lead and new is not an approved method. It may work, but an inspector, I think, would not pass it for good reason.
 

Cacher_Chick

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If the new flange pins the top of the bend in place it should work fine. Getting the lead peened over without damaging it further may be the hard part.

.. Your picture was posted while I was writing. I do not know how you expect to seal the new lead to the old lead, as it must be a proper joint that will withstand a pressure test.
 

mattswabb

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Update.
So in the basement I uncovered the waste pipe and saw that there was a hub just below the floor. It was packed full of insulation so I never had a good look. I assumed it was a straight run. So I went back up and drilled out the lead and removed all the junk.

Here's a pic from underneath

mattswab-04.jpg


Here's what the top side looks like. The top of the hub is 2.375" below the finished floor.

mattswab-05.jpg


So now what should I do? My guess is to lead in a short piece of pipe then slip over a cast flange an lead that in.
 
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Jadnashua

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How much height do you have to the top of where you think the finished floor will be? That will determine somewhat, the best way to do this.
 

hj

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You haven't helped your situation. The hub may be too close to the finished floor for a standard cast iron flange, although you might be able to find a 4x1" flange if it is, (they are very rare). I would lead/oakum a short piece of cast iron pipe into the hub and then install a cast iron flange, using a lead joint, on top of the new floor.
 

mattswabb

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2.375 from the finished floor to the top of the hub. 4.875 from the bottom of the hub to the finished floor.

Hub has a 5" ID
 

mattswabb

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Done. Bought a fernco donut and a hubbed flange. Cut a short piece of 4" pvc, chamfered 1 end lubed everything with soap and slipped the donut half way on. Then inserted it into the hub and worked it in. It is tight. Next I'll bring the floor up close to the pipe and then glue the flange to the hub and secure it to the floor.

mattswabb-02.jpg


Thanks for all the advise above. I'm pretty handy but this was new territory for me. This is in my 1910 house I've been working on for a few years. If you're bored here's a ton of pics to look at.

mattswabb-01.jpg
 
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