Toilet Flange install with new tile floor

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Titan7, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. Titan7

    Titan7 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    Right now the top of my 4" ABS drain pipe is level with the top of the new subfloor. Tile installer said the top of the finished floor should be 3/4" higher.

    thin-set+1/4" hardy backer=3/16" + 3/16" thinset + 3/8" tile =3/4"

    Rather than drill through the tile to mount the closet flange I am going to make a ring spacer out of 3/4" plywood that will fit very closely around the 4" AbS drain, mount that to the subfloor, and have the installer tile around it. I can then glue the flange in and drill the screws into the wood to set it.

    Reason I was asking about the floor is I am trying to figure out the closet flange. Right now the top of my 4" ABS drain pipe is level with the top of the new subfloor. The plywood donut, would be the same diameter as the metal ring of the new flange.

    Is there any drawback to doing this vs tiling up to the 4"abs and then gluing on the new flange, and then drilling through the tile to mount to the sub floor?

    It just seem to me drilling the hard tile has the potential to crack it. I could not see a down side to what I was proposing above.

    I plan to use the Oatey glue on flange with a stainless steel ring. I have another with aluminum too, I guess both will work.
  2. Basement_Lurker

    Basement_Lurker One who lurks

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    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    I wouldn't try the spacer ring method if I were you; too many extra variables that could go wrong. And you would have to countersink whatever fastener you would use to try and secure the spacer down to the subfloor (I am assuming concrete slab) and most likely crack it. I assume by "hard tile" you mean porcelain tile, which is pretty difficult to crack by drilling unless you aim to break it!

    But before you consider all of that, if I understand what you said, your pipe is flush with the subfloor now, and there will be a gap of 3/4" between the top of the pipe and the finished floor...if that is the case..that's a sizeable gap...and you should consider just installing the flange flush with the subfloor and having the tiler install around it! You can always use spacer rings or double the wax rings to balance it out afterwards...not the best method, but certainly one worth considering in your case.

    Maybe someone else has a better idea?
  3. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

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    1,332
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    A 4 by 3 flange should work as it will fit inside 4in pipe.
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
    New England
    The cleaner way to do this is have the flange available to the tiler, and ask him to make slots for the screws so you don't have to drill through it. Drilling porcelain often takes a diamond bit...many will laugh at a carbide one. Cutting the hole by the tiler and notching is well within his capabilies (or should be). You ideally want the flange on top of the finished floor. Since you have a 4" pipe, I'll second using the inside mount flange.
  5. Titan7

    Titan7 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    Yes I was going to use the 4 by 3 (oatey with a stainless ring, fits inside the 4" ABS).

    With regard to drilling through the tile, I guess I could do that but by doing so there would be a 3/4" gap between the top of the finished floor and the wood subfloor. I thought by adding the spacer and screwing it to the floor via the screws that will hold the flange ring down made more sense? I plan to have the top of the stainless ring just above the surface of the finished floor.

    In other words, the height of the top of the ring will be the same with the spacer as it would be if I were to drill through or notch the tile and rest the flange on top of the finished floor. Does it really matter whether the tile is directly under the metal ring or around the outside diameter of the metal ring as long as the height is correct? Either way you will not be able to see one the toilet is set?

    I will post some photos tonight.

    What do you think of the twist and set Oatey flanges. My only concern is the I/D is 2.5". I did use one of these on my other upstairs toilet 4 years ago and have had no issues.
  6. Basement_Lurker

    Basement_Lurker One who lurks

    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    All that matters is that the spacer is the same height as the surrounding tile if you are going to go that route.

    I assumed you were going to use an inside fit flange because of the 4" pipe, I just don't like the idea of you not being able to insert the fitting all the way into the pipe as far as it should go because the drain pipe is cut too short.
  7. Titan7

    Titan7 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    How far should it go in? I was also considering the twistnset as mentioned rather than the glue on. Glue on is a one-shot deal!

    Here are the photos.


    [​IMG][/IMG]

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    [​IMG][/IMG]
  8. Basement_Lurker

    Basement_Lurker One who lurks

    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    Great pics. Your post said the drain pipe was flush with the subfloor, but the picture shows it to be approx 1/4" above it. I think you would be fine to proceed with setting the new flange into the pipe from the finished floor.
  9. Titan7

    Titan7 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    Still any reason not to make the donut spacer out of the 3/4" plywood and install first, then tile around it?
  10. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Messages:
    2,051
    No need for a spacer. If the hardibacker and tile are cut properly, they will sit just under the flange. Use a cardboard template to find the exact location and size of the cut-out, and it will be just perfect.

    I use a gritted carbide jigsaw blade to make the cutout in the hardibacker.

    Once the tiling is done, just glue the flange to the inside of the ABS pipe then anchor using a 1/4" diamond bit or exceptionally good carbide drill bit. (I found the latter at ACE). Experiment on a spare piece of tile first. If you still can't drill a hole easily, do what JAD recommends and notch out the tiles where the flange mounting screws will go.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2007
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,485
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    flange

    The "proper" installation would be to enlarge the space around the pipe and install a 4" flange that slides over the pipe, (on top of the tile). The distance below the floor is not a factor because the flange is more than long enough to compensate for the depth.
  12. Titan7

    Titan7 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    I was going to use a 4" flange on the outside but for some reason they fit too loose on the OD of the ABS pipe. I was concerned the cement was not designed to fill in gaps? It just did not fit snug like a new ABS pipe and flange does. Is the internal 3" a bad option?
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,889
    Location:
    New England
    The only disadvantage (that I'm aware of, but I'm not a pro) is if the line becomes clogged...if it were an external flange, you could put a 4" cutter down the pipe. WIth a 3" opening and a 4" pipe, you can't.

    The fittings are interference fits (at least with pvc, think it is the same with abs)...they are designed to melt and fuse together with the glue, so unless you seat it fully, it may not make a great connection since it is tapered.
  14. JStan

    JStan New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Related question...

    Hi guys - reading your posts helps me with my problem but not completely. I am re-tiling a floor that has a cast iron 4" closet. The flange in place is close to flush with the new tile - I guess I should have removed it and then installed a new flange once tile is in but I did not want to get into melting lead. THe old flange is about 1/4" above the tile and I just noticed last night it is partly broken - the lip cracked off long ago. Should I worry about this? Should I just install a flange extension or just use a thick wax seal?
    Thanks in advance.
  15. JStan

    JStan New Member

    Messages:
    3
    I think I figured it out...

    The answer is stack flange. I did some poking around on this site and then came up with this diagram.

    Attached Files:

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