tiling shower floor in seperate sections

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by dedalus, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    If you actually read the Ditra Drain instructions, and know how it works, you'd realize that it is a combined uncoupling layer and a drainage mat. Don't know any drainage mats that are waterproof...it is not a contiguous sheet like the other forms of Ditra. And, counter to previous experience, it is installed with the fleece UP. Banding the seams would be useless. not because of the fleece, but because of the shape of the dimples in the mat not being all the same height, and the fact that some of them have a drainage hole in them to allow moisture to get below it and have a channel to drain from. To make it waterproof, you either need your waterproofing below it or above it, depending on the application.

    IOW, Ditra Drain, as a standalone product, is not, nor never was designed to be or stated that it is waterproof. The ASSEMBLY can be made waterproof, but the fact Ditra Drain is in the assembly, only tells you that you have an uncoupling membrane layer there. If you deem it desirable to have one, it should be considered. It should not be bashed for something it has never been advertised to be.
  2. martinclukey

    martinclukey New Member

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    Thanks for sharing these info ...
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    John sure knows how to twist words.

    Ditra drain, at least in the USA, is fairly new. It is a form of Ditra that does what it says...allows drainage. Therefore, since it has holes in it, it is not waterproof. Ditra is waterproof if you seam it properly, but if you look at the company's recommendations on how to install tile on a deck over a living space, it's a whole lot more involved than just a single layer of material. These recommendations are not new, not something recently discovered, and have been in their installation handbook for years. But, you have to read it and understand it, and then, actually FOLLOW the instructions. Ditra in one form or another can be PART of an exterior deck over living space, but it is not the only thing required.
  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    There's much more to what John is saying than is being said...this is a complex topic and you need the whole story. Ditra can be used as part of an external deck over living space, but you still need to build it properly. Water management is key - it's not only waterproofing, it's directing that water properly. A sheet membrane like Ditra is primarily an uncoupling membrane that, under some circumstances can become a primary waterproofing layer. The important thing in that sentence is "under some circumstances CAN become the primary waterproofing layer". That also means that it cannot always be.

    As to Ditra Drain, it cannot become a waterproof membrane without fully covering it since it has holes in it to aid drainage. A product in the same uncoupling line with a different feature that can be incorporated into the SYSTEM. You may or may not need uncoupling for your tile, but if you do, Ditra, in one or the other, is a good choice. Again, Ditra line of products are primarily UNCOUPLING layers. That some of them can be waterproof is a secondary feature, that may not be sufficient for your application. It will always work as an uncoupling membrane, and those are good for many tiling situations.

    John WHipple has a chip on his shoulder with Schluter, so you have to read between the lines on anything he says about either it, or me. FWIW, you could say the same thing about Laticrete's StradaMat...it has holes in it, too. It is not waterproof, but could be incorporated into a tiled deck, but only provides uncoupling, just like the Ditra line of products.
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    FWIW, there are FOUR different versions of Ditra. Two of them cannot easily be made waterproof like the others: Ditra Drain (has holes in it for drainage - DUH, it can't be waterproof), and Ditra Heat (which does not have continuous ridges that you can cover with the band material like in Ditra and DitraXL). ALL of them can become waterproof with an additional step and they ALL retain their full function as an uncoupling membrane whether you expect or need waterproofing. Then, there is a big difference between the need or desire to waterproof a free-standing deck or a slab on grade verses any deck construction over living space, and the details are different, as one might expect not only in how, but the accepted practices of different countries. The plumbing and building codes vary across the USA, and certainly do between the USA and Canada.

    So, it is kind of dumb and misleading to say Ditra is not waterproof when actually talking about Ditra Drain - they are four different UNCOUPLING membranes, each serving a different purpose and with different features.

    I do not know when Ditra Drain was introduced in Canada, but in the USA, it was not shown or discussed last year at their training...it was this year, and when asked, I was told it has been a couple of years, but was a slow introduction. That it may have been readily available in Canada previously, doesn't surprise me...Ditra and Kerdi are made in Canada for the US and Canadian market.
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
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