tiling shower floor in seperate sections

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by dedalus, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    If you actually read the Ditra Drain instructions, and know how it works, you'd realize that it is a combined uncoupling layer and a drainage mat. Don't know any drainage mats that are waterproof...it is not a contiguous sheet like the other forms of Ditra. And, counter to previous experience, it is installed with the fleece UP. Banding the seams would be useless. not because of the fleece, but because of the shape of the dimples in the mat not being all the same height, and the fact that some of them have a drainage hole in them to allow moisture to get below it and have a channel to drain from. To make it waterproof, you either need your waterproofing below it or above it, depending on the application.

    IOW, Ditra Drain, as a standalone product, is not, nor never was designed to be or stated that it is waterproof. The ASSEMBLY can be made waterproof, but the fact Ditra Drain is in the assembly, only tells you that you have an uncoupling membrane layer there. If you deem it desirable to have one, it should be considered. It should not be bashed for something it has never been advertised to be.
     
  2. martinclukey

    martinclukey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2014
    Location:
    India
    Thanks for sharing these info ...
     
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Tiling a Schluter Shower Kit in Four Sections with large format tile

    [​IMG]
    I was emailed the photo below and added the shading and arrows. I helped out this fellow with his shower floor tile layout so he could work with his Schluter Shower tray and use large format tile.

    The real important steps are the proper thin-set selections and material choices to finish up.

    After a 20 minute phone call we discussed improvements on the Kerdi install and how to proceed with tiling the four separate sections.

    Here is an email I received the other day.

    I am a DIY'er with an interest in this type of work. I enjoy watching reno shows and really like to turn some of that into projects around the house.

    I am currently renovating my master bathroom and I am working on the shower. I thought I planned well however, Ive run into a bit of an issue. I used a 32x60 off center schluter kit and extended it to a 36x72 with dry pack. I plan to use a 12x24 tile in the shower (I know this is frowned upon for safety and ease of work but I really dont want many grout lines).

    The issue I have is what to do with the pre slope on the schluter. I dont want diagonal lines to follow the pre slope. Can I ignore/change (it will be relatively similar but not follow it exactly) the preslop and create my own? I was thinking about making a trench across the drain and have the tile on both sides pitch towards it. I saw your picture where you used tile edging to create the trench. Can I do it without a trench? Because the edges are relatively the same height, wont the water run down to the middle and towards the drain anyways? I plan on using tile leveling system to keep lippage to a minimum.


    Shower design is fun. I believe tile layout is one of the most important things when building your shower. If you like this level of service please post your questions here or send me an email.

    JW - "When it's perfect. It's Good Enough."

    www.No-Curb.com - my blog site on Barrier Free, No Curb, No Dam and Hobless Showers

    (604) 506-6792 jfrwhipple@gmail.com
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    John sure knows how to twist words.

    Ditra drain, at least in the USA, is fairly new. It is a form of Ditra that does what it says...allows drainage. Therefore, since it has holes in it, it is not waterproof. Ditra is waterproof if you seam it properly, but if you look at the company's recommendations on how to install tile on a deck over a living space, it's a whole lot more involved than just a single layer of material. These recommendations are not new, not something recently discovered, and have been in their installation handbook for years. But, you have to read it and understand it, and then, actually FOLLOW the instructions. Ditra in one form or another can be PART of an exterior deck over living space, but it is not the only thing required.
     
  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    [​IMG]

    This job will be using smaller tile like 2"x2" or 4"x4". My client from Arkansa. You can see some of the prep work for the barrier free build.

    JW - "When it's perfect. It's Good Enough."

    www.No-Curb.com - my blog site on Barrier Free, No Curb, No Dam and Hobless Showers

    (604) 506-6792 jfrwhipple@gmail.com
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    There's much more to what John is saying than is being said...this is a complex topic and you need the whole story. Ditra can be used as part of an external deck over living space, but you still need to build it properly. Water management is key - it's not only waterproofing, it's directing that water properly. A sheet membrane like Ditra is primarily an uncoupling membrane that, under some circumstances can become a primary waterproofing layer. The important thing in that sentence is "under some circumstances CAN become the primary waterproofing layer". That also means that it cannot always be.

    As to Ditra Drain, it cannot become a waterproof membrane without fully covering it since it has holes in it to aid drainage. A product in the same uncoupling line with a different feature that can be incorporated into the SYSTEM. You may or may not need uncoupling for your tile, but if you do, Ditra, in one or the other, is a good choice. Again, Ditra line of products are primarily UNCOUPLING layers. That some of them can be waterproof is a secondary feature, that may not be sufficient for your application. It will always work as an uncoupling membrane, and those are good for many tiling situations.

    John WHipple has a chip on his shoulder with Schluter, so you have to read between the lines on anything he says about either it, or me. FWIW, you could say the same thing about Laticrete's StradaMat...it has holes in it, too. It is not waterproof, but could be incorporated into a tiled deck, but only provides uncoupling, just like the Ditra line of products.
     
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Nice example of a UK shower in separate sections

    [​IMG]


    JW - "When it's perfect. It's Good Enough."

    www.No-Curb.com - my blog site on Barrier Free, No Curb, No Dam and Hobless Showers

    (604) 506-6792 jfrwhipple@gmail.com
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    FWIW, there are FOUR different versions of Ditra. Two of them cannot easily be made waterproof like the others: Ditra Drain (has holes in it for drainage - DUH, it can't be waterproof), and Ditra Heat (which does not have continuous ridges that you can cover with the band material like in Ditra and DitraXL). ALL of them can become waterproof with an additional step and they ALL retain their full function as an uncoupling membrane whether you expect or need waterproofing. Then, there is a big difference between the need or desire to waterproof a free-standing deck or a slab on grade verses any deck construction over living space, and the details are different, as one might expect not only in how, but the accepted practices of different countries. The plumbing and building codes vary across the USA, and certainly do between the USA and Canada.

    So, it is kind of dumb and misleading to say Ditra is not waterproof when actually talking about Ditra Drain - they are four different UNCOUPLING membranes, each serving a different purpose and with different features.

    I do not know when Ditra Drain was introduced in Canada, but in the USA, it was not shown or discussed last year at their training...it was this year, and when asked, I was told it has been a couple of years, but was a slow introduction. That it may have been readily available in Canada previously, doesn't surprise me...Ditra and Kerdi are made in Canada for the US and Canadian market.
     
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD for both Canada & the US

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work World Wide: Bathrooms Vancouver Area
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Tiling a shower in sections
    Tips from Hollywood Film makers

    [​IMG] .
    Shower Scene from the movie Carrie 2013
    Look at the shower floor. See the V Cut? That would all grade towards the actress. The the left the grade would fall to the center and the the right it would fall to the center as well. One drain - Four tile sections. Assuming the tile is 12"x12" and we can see at least seven rows the grade would be 7 x 1/4" or 7/4" or 1 3/4".


    JW - "When it's perfect. It's Good Enough."

    www.No-Curb.com - my blog site on Barrier Free, No Curb, No Dam and Hobless Showers

    (604) 506-6792 jfrwhipple@gmail.com
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
Similar Threads: tiling shower
Forum Title Date
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Suggestions for a first time tiler? Tiling my shower. Feb 20, 2015
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Shower Retiling: When to ReTile That Old Shower - How, What, Where and Why Nov 7, 2013
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Tiling shower Aug 28, 2008
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Shower tub tiling flange and bowing backerboard Jun 18, 2007
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Tiling floor and installing a Sterling shower receptor May 18, 2007

Share This Page