This should be an easy Delta question for you guys!

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by Marc46, May 13, 2011.

  1. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    My house was built in 1992.
    I have a large shower only in the second bath that uses one of the old Delta single handle controls. I think it is a 600 series from some of the pics I have looked at, but not certain.

    Anyway, I started having a small leak about a week ago when taking a shower.
    It is dripping out from behind the handle slowly when the water is on. No leaks from anywhere in the off position.

    Just wondering what parts I need to do a rebuild.
    I would love to replace the entire fixture, but where my back access is to the assembly makes it a nightmare, and more work than I want to get into right now.

    Actually I probably should do a complete rebuild after this many years regardless of what individual part is causing the issue.

    Thanks for any help with numbers,.......I can shoot a pic if it is needed to identify the exact model.:cool:
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,022
    Location:
    New England
    Depending on the model, all it may need are some springs and seals...the hard part may be getting the ball cover off without damaging it. A picture would help.
  3. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I will take a pic this weekend to clarify the model. I also understand what you mean about that ring.

    I have good water, but it is an old fixture.
  4. Jerome2877

    Jerome2877 In the Trades

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    BC
    Springs and seats replacement is when the leak is coming out the spout. You need a new O ring.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    It depends on whether it has a lever or rotary mechanism, since I also replace the cartridge or ball.
  6. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Here is a quick pic. It must be leaking around the handle stem, and shooting into the hollow of the handle and dripping back out when being used. It does not leak anywhere when off.

    marc_delta.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2011
  7. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    It is an easy fix. you need to replace the cam packing, RP188 in the diagram. You will probably find a kit at any hardware store with ball, seats and springs, and the cam packing. Make sure to take your ball with you. You probably have the diamond shape stem. need to get same. The hard part is getting the bonnet nut loose. DO NOT TWIST IT TOO HARD. Soak in vinegar for a day, try to turn. If it does not move easily...STOP. You can try heat ( hair dryer) and may need to slice it open with a small hacksaw blade or dremel. THe nut is readily available for replacement.
  8. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Yes,.....I know for a fact it is the diamond shaped stem as I replaced the handle a number of years ago.
    Is the 'bonnet nut' that dome shaped cover that rides under the handle with the serrations on it?

    Also the part# you gave,......is that a standard Delta part# or do I need to find the exact model I have. Do you know if I was right in terms of it being a 600 series?

    I have a dremel if needed, so that is no issue. I am good at most mechanical things,......I just happen to hate plumbing! No offense meant. LOL
    Thanks much!
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,022
    Location:
    New England
    Yes, the dome shaped cover/nut needs to be removed to gain access. If you squeeze too hard, you can deform it, making removal harder. If you twist too hard, you can ruin the whole thing by twisting and kinking the supply tubing. The dome is pretty generic. Make sure the water to the house (or if you are lucky to the valve) is off before you tear it apart.
  10. wd 40 the hell out of it first..........

    we had a call yesterday that we could not get to ... the exact same faucet...

    the homeowner basically forced the bonnet with a pair of pliers and tore the whole thing right out of the wall.... ;)

    had to shut down the whole house till he could find a plumber willing to come up to his house at 245 on a friday afternoon...

    was gonna charge him about 500 for anew delta faucet but had to refer him to another plumber in the area .....


    be careful with that nut or you will regret it.....WD40 is your freind
    hose it down, then give it a few raps with some plliers to loosen it up , then see if it breaks loose....

    we have sawed off many of them with a hack saw...:cool:
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I repair that damage for about $200.00. I have never had to cut a cap off.
  12. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Thanks for the info guys. I have the nut soaking right now.
    Is there any part number for the whole kit?
    Just that I would like to buy the kit before I tear everything apart, as this shower gets used a LOT.

    Actually last night it didn't leak at all while using it,.......I don't get that part.

    Edit: Well last night after being finished with that shower, I took the handle off as well as the wall plate and stuffed a rag in the hole to absorb any dripping WD-40. I soaked it again before bed, and then again about 8AM. Just went in there with a big pair of channelocks with a rag around the bonnet nut. Nothing but slippage, and I quickly realized I was gonna bugger the external serrations anyway. Git rid of the rag and tried again,...........nothing. Got out a small pipe wrench and tried that.

    Well like some of you said, I actually started to turn the copper piping on the back. I didn't break anything as i saw it start to move. I simply turned it back that 1/64" roughly to get it straight again VERY gently. No leaks, so I didn't crack any of those three copper tubes in back.

    Looks like I am going to have to cut it off with a Dremel as if it was gonna move, it should have after all that soaking. Funny thing is there is ZERO mineral build-up around that nut junction, WTH? At this point I am afraid of trying to turn it again due to work-hardening the copper.

    How do you Dremel off the section where the serrations are without ruining the threads on the body for a new bonnet nut? Yea,.......maybe I am a dope, but if there is a secret I need to know it! LOL
    Last edited: May 15, 2011
  13. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Here is another pic of it open.
    I am wondering if a really good plumber would be able to change the entire fixture from the front? If some of you guys think so,......I may just take the opportunity to update it. Let me know on this option too if you would.

    [​IMG]
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,022
    Location:
    New England
    Many new valves are wider, so the supply lines are unlikely to line up and you may need more room. If it can't be done with the existing hole, they do make remodel/renovation cover plates specifically for this sort of situation. This is the one made by Delta...each company makes one and the style differs, but the function remains the same. http://www.deltafaucet.com/repairparts/details/RP29827.html
  15. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    A "really" good plumber would probably be able to replace the valve from the front, but he would also be able to remove the "dome nut" without cutting it or damaging the copper tubes holding the faucet together. The copper tubes are NOT "work hardened" and they WILL twist off very easily if you abuse the faucet body.
  16. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    HJ,.....I know they are not work hardened. Fortunately I saw the body move a VERY small amount. They did not kink or crack thankfully.

    I just got back from one of the industrial places I do work for, and talked to one of their guys that is a plumber. He said these valves can be a real PIA when they don't come off easily, but didn't really have any hints.

    Since you said a good plumber could remove the nut without cutting, can you tell me what the secret is? LOL
    I soaked it for hours in WD40 and it would not budge.
    I really would like to simply replace the guts of this one for now, as I plan to remodel this entire bath in a year or so. I will need a new bonnet nut at this point anyway, as I managed to dig through the chrome finish trying to get it loose. I hate to try and cut it since I am afraid of hitting the threads on the brass body that the rim of the bonnet nut connects to.

    Any other tricks would be appreciated!!
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,022
    Location:
    New England
    The WD in the name stands for Water Displacement. What you need was mentioned earlier - slather it with vinegar or CLR, or something similar. Do it periodically over say a day or so. The acid will break up the mineral deposits that are holding things together. WD40 (the 40th try to make it work as a water displacement) is not designed to loosen a mineral welded plumbing fixture. If that doesn't work, it may be time to cut it off.
  18. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Messages:
    1,347
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    DO NOTsqueez to hard and there is a tool available out there some where to remove the bonnet,also the kit has a wrench in to work on the gasket that seals the ball.
  19. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Take a torch and set it to a small flame. Move it around the cap for a few seconds, and then try to unscrew it. If it does not turn EASILY, keep repeating until it DOES. When you reach the proper temperature, it will unscrew as if it had been oiled. You might start the plastic "cam" on fire but that is normal, just don't get into the smoke because it will make your eyes water.
  20. Marc46

    Marc46 HVAC Contractor

    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Thanks once again folks for all the suggestions.

    I already have one of those little tools to tighten down the packing to the ball. Actually I tightened it a small amount and the leak appears to have stopped for now,.......I know that only bought me some time though.

    I am going to soak it in white vinegar for a number of days and try it then. If that doesn't work, I will move to heat as hj suggested. I will probably use my paint gun, as I only have an oxy/acetylene setup being as I am not a plumber. The paint gun I have gets really hot, so I am assuming that should work,.......if not I guess I can buy a little plumbers torch from Lowes or something.

    I know I have been a pain per se, but I still would appreciate the part numbers if someone knows what they are.
    Want to replace the ball, cam and packing, bonnet nut, springs and seals, and anything else in there I might be missing. I would like to have ALL this stuff on hand before I try this again. Yea,......I have to turn off the entire house and drain down my well until I can get this up and running again.

    I probably should have called a plumber to start with, but some of the ones I have met around here don't impress me to be honest. I have seen a number of them that can't even fix a gas water heater. I have fixed a few of them for old residential customers after they had 2 or 3 plumbing companies out with no luck. One was low gas pressure on the valve outlet, another was a bad thermocouple, and the funniest of all was one with a plugged 'spark arrestor' disk that was starving for combustion air.

    If I knew a good plumber, I would have called them before I started all this. LOL
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