The end of woodworking in America, does anyone care?

Discussion in 'Computers and Stuff' started by ballvalve, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    To solve the worlds woes, we need BIRTH CONTROL. Tax the third child like motorhomes and boats and yachts.

    Put it in the water, mist it over India and Haiti and China, and magically in 80 years we will have a sustainable earth.

    Without it, humans are certain to bring about their total destruction, no matter if I drive a stretch limo to the hardware store.
  2. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    You talk about being poor, do not go into the hairdressing field unless, you want to be. I was given numerous scholarships in high school, one was for hairdressing, I got my license before I was graduated from high school at age 16. I tried it since, it is a family trade, somewhat. This sustained me while in college, but, I wouldn't recommend it, lol. I lived on rice. Oh, I tried to explain this to my son's girlfriend, but she wouldn't listen, now she is in back in college. Oh, It tried... no money in that field my friend. Not a very good trade to learn, when times are bad, people just put that bowl on their head, :) Studying plumbing. Study electrical. Study computers.

    By the way, if you are happily willing to pay 5 bucks a gallon, God bless you, because I am not. My sons applied for college near my home and couldn't get in because no seats was available. And, why weren't they available? Many kids came from other countries and filled them up. Not good. That was okay, but it cost me more to send them to another college, a missionary college, instead of state. Kids from other countries paid nothing there, lol. Meanwhile, I paid and paid and paid. We need less people from other countries here Ian, taking jobs, etc, just the way it is.

  3. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    We can't tax birth because then only the rich could afford to have kids.

    While that may fit neatly with American "values", just what will you do with those that can't pay? Fine them like the Chinese?

    I say tax em, but just the Californians who seem unable to live within their means.

    As far as kicking out the foreigners, America needs the cheap labor and the skills that foreign people bring. In fact, the country is too big for the meesly 300 million odd people that live here. We need more people living in America, to pay taxes and fix up the roads that continue to badly batter my truck.....in the Nation's Capital!

    Bigger Government, more taxes, more immigrants, open the gates. That is what America needs.

    And ban guns.

    I could fix this country in a blink. But one or two Conservatives might get a bit itchy.

    It all comes down to whether you value your values more than your pocket book.

    I say the wallet beats the church, every time. If in doubt, ask a hungry man. You won't need to look too hard since at my last count the number of people on food stamps here was larger than the number in college!

    I'm for freedom. Starting with allowing all gas stations to sell liqour, even on Sunday mornings.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  4. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    That is because all the seats are filled with others from other countries. Who can get an education unless, they were born not in the USA. Those students was supposed to get an education and then... go to their country to satisfy the needs there, but alas, they work at jobs here, in all walks of life, medical, education, etc. Which leads our unemployment rate skyrocketing for Americans and, putting a burden on our country in all shapes and forms. Those students eventually when making big bucks here, buy cars not made in the USA and drive on our roads & bridges which our taxes fix to your dissatifaction.

    The key to birth control is simply, sex education in the schools since parents at home usually, cannot discuss the birds & the bees with them, until, they have already experimented. It is the same world wide. No matter where you go. Sadly, China, tries to control the birth population by seeking out a desired sex and doing away with the unwanted one.

    We live in an imperfect world because humans will never be perfect and to warrant a perfect solution, a one-size fits all, is having your head in the clouds.

    Doing what is right is a step in the right direction.

    So far as selling booze everywhere, anywhere, any day of the week, is far from right. I was honest with both my sons about both sides of my family considering drinking; that the reason I am not invited to any family reunions is because they hold them at AA Meetings, and I don't drink and have no reason to be invited. I told them, that I hope they don't start for it is in the genes, just like any other disease. To sell booze everywhere, anywhere, any day of the week, would create hardships for even more trials & tribulations for those trying to get a handle on a problem which is misunderstood as only a character weakness. It is enough if you want a six-pack, a bottle of wine, or fire water, to be able to go get it widely enough as it is. It is insensitive and disrespectful to others who can live easier without it being pushed under their noses. Respect. The world needs more respect for others and their feelings.

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  5. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Then, where is the freedom? And does limiting the sale help the problem you cite? Not really.

    The education problem sounds more like one of funding. If only foreign students can afford to go to college here, then we really do have a problem.

    Taxpayers should foot the bill for all American kids to go to college, regardless of their background. Kids from poorer parents should get more taxpayer support. Rich kids should get no taxpayer help.

    Why should my opportunities in life depend on how well my parents have done?

    And if I do well, then you do well when I pay more in taxes.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  6. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    You are confusing, good judgement with freedom. I guess according to the way you think, to that of, do you have a right to kill someone?

    About education, their are many programs to fund it, to take loans and grants out, but the problem lies within, their being enough of room.

    Who are those seats filled by?

    I am curious, also, where exactly is the cut-off, which would imply when one is rich? Basicially, what you are describing involves stripping one of their rights to earn without being discriminated against. You are also, resting the ills and burden of society on those with wealth. Freedom is not freedom, if even, one person loses theirs in the process.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  7. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Come to California - Wine and beer all night and all week long. Right at the gas stations, like Europe.

    I am not sure about hard liquor, perhaps until 2 am or so.

    Several other states are in much deeper do-do than us. We have it all in ONE day - ski, swim, desert, waterfalls, forests, mushroom hunting, government lands by the size of virginia all around, marshes, rivers, and GOLD.

    Actually I can do all that in a 3 hour radius. Try that in Wisconsin or Indiana. They'll come back.

    And decent infrastructure, compared to Scotland, where 36,000 people are out of water for the next 2 weeks because of OLD PIPES. Looks like your European theories have a few holes, Ian.
  8. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Well, those pipes are not buried that deep. And certainly not used to the climate change that is being felt as a result of American cars.

    And at least the Government is fixing them now. Not just waiting for feepayers to foot the bill like here.

    I do like California, and Californians. They are very friendly.

    Nevertheless,

    -- 30% of California’s bridges are structurally deficient or functionally obsolete.
    -- There are 687 high hazard dams in California.
    -- 66% of California’s major roads are in poor or mediocre condition.
    -- California spends $2 billion less each year on highway maintenance and rehabilitation than is needed.

    I say raise taxes and return California to its former splendor.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  9. Cookie

    Cookie .

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  10. You can get some SMOKIN' deals at IKEA on furniture. I don't care how many kids it took to build that entertainment center in china, or portugal. Hell who cares! I got it for $139.00 !!!
  11. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    See what you are up against Ian? The guy above supports child slavery, probably got it online where he paid no taxes, cares not about the quality as long as it makes it home, and sends his salary to Bangladesh.

    And he is proud of it. Maybe you are right, maybe the average American is quite a dolt. They just may deserve their water mains to sink their houses and their bridges to maim their children.

    But you are bloody misinformed about Americans cadillacs heating up polar bears dens.

    The ENGLISH heated the atmosphere with their coal mines firing Newcomens and Watts crappy steam engines, turning their looms with 8 year old girls working 10 hour days, while pop worked underground in the Cornish tin mines for a pastie a 12 hour day.

    Then came Newcomen, and a improved steam engine, which exhausted Englands coal entirely. Then YOUR BOYS [unemployed] came to california to enhance our rape of nature and accelerate the use of coal. It's all on your shoulders, those sweaty polar bears.

    The rest of the Brits were off on big sailing ships spreading venereal disease and smallpox around the earth. They killed more souls than 100,000 9-11's, and we are not counting the slaughter in India; the numbers would be too big.

    Snow cores from the Arctic actually fingerprint the first coal 'fallout' as from Englands dirty coal in the late 1600's.

    Then you managed to take the Australian paradise, fill it with sodomites and ner-do wells, and label it a succesful " transport"
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  12. HOLY SMOKES!


    IKEA even have plumbing tools!

    http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/28512100


    They are giving you the mini cutter at no charge! Son of a *****!

    I'm heading there now, can't pass that deal up

  13. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    IKEA does actually make a few good lines. Here's a few tips if you want your IKEA stuff to last a decade or more:

    1) buy the solid wood stuff. It's there. Just look.

    2) Use wood glue. For smaller items (things that won't need to be disassembled if you need to move them to another room like beds) don't just rely on the screw thingies that hold the furniture together. Use wood glue as well. This stops the charachteristic "shake" IKEA furniture can develop after a few years.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  14. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Location:
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    Its becoming an Ikea, Costco and Walmart world. We are losing our soul.

    Hard to find a private restaurant or cafe unless you are in Kansas or New York.

    Ikea does make some nice stuff, but the local cabinetmakers can beat their kitchen prices when given the chance. And a house outfitted entirely from Ikea just screams temporary, transient, cheap.

    Give me a 1700's stone farmhouse in Italy, a few thousand feet of roughsawn local lumber, and I'll show you what life and living can really be.
  15. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    I do a lot of my own woodwork now. Granted, I have to make do with Red Oak which is far inferior to European Oak but it's better than nothing.

    Red wood is probably the best you've got, which is a mediocre timber compared to what is on offer in Europe.

    I wouldn't live in a stone house though. Too cold. In some, condensation can freeze on the inside.

    But then again, I wouldn't live in a wooden house either. Like most Americans do.

    We like brick houses with slate roofs.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  16. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Really now Ian, you should know that western European and even most of east European wood [especially old growth oak] is long gone or locked up in parks.

    America is a candy store for wood, and the prices are fantastic. If not for American white oak barrels, your Scotch would cost 10x more.

    You need not use red oak, move to white oak, which is actually cheaper in some markets. Its as close as you will get to the wood the English built their ships with. American white oak is also superior in that the pores do not allow water through when SAWED. To make a barrel in European oak, the wood must be split, with huge waste.

    I buy white oak at @1.60$ per board foot. I own a serious sawmill, but could never compete with that price.

    Where you really have the American advantage is in black walnut, at @5.00$ per BF [likely cheaper on the east coast]

    And its all sustainable. Studies show harvest is less than regrowth for about 15 years now. Small family plots, mostly.

    Your european pine is crap, cut from those hideous little sticks growing in a sterile tree cornfield. I would venture your only advantage is in Beech, which is from Russia anyway. Try Alder, a very nice wood from Oregon.

    Most of my house is built of 16" THICK double core block, insulation in one and steel in the other. Then I framed the house in heart redwood for termite and rot resistance. The beams came out of my own mill from pine trees the size of what Europeans must pay 10$ to get into a park to have a look at.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  17. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Beech is best.
  18. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    We have maple, even harder than Beech. About the same color. And you can buy the Russian Beech here quite cheap.

    Wider widths available in maple.
  19. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    I'm about to buy some maple. And I recently imported some beech. So I'll let you know.

    There's one thing you can grow though. Yes we cannabis. Yes to 19.
  20. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Clear European Beech is $3.15 per BF here. Maple, clear, surfaced is @ $3.95. What are you paying for Beech?

    Maple is terrible to try and stain, so I use it only with clear finishes. Alder loves stain, and I get full on 1" clear surfaced for $1.56. I suppose because its a west coast thing.

    When cannabis is legal and they grow it like corn, the price will be lower than cigarettes.

    The present illegal growers fear such a proposition greatly.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
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