Terry: I need to buy 3 replacement toilets, which Toto? Drake,Ultramax, Ultramax II?

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Rockstead

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I have no idea which Toto to buy, I heard great things about the TOTO MS604114CEFG Ultramax II but in the Ultramax II thread, Terry rated it just below the Sanigloss Drake and Ultramax. Usually you would think a II of something would be an improvement. So I would like to understand that.

Price is not a factor, so it's not about getting best value, I just want the best toilet because I've lived through hell with my current three. We are a family of 6, kids aged 5, 8,9. Even split of 3 males, 3 females.

Is one piece preferable over 2?
I'm assuming elongated is the way to go?
Quiet flush is important so that we can actually flush at night, I can't currently with my builder grade toilets due to the noise and I hate waking up to a toilet that hasn't been flushed.
Comfort height, hoping it won't be too tall for kids.
Cleaning, everything sticks to current toilets. Easy or self cleaning would be great.
Can wipes be used with newer toilets?
I prefer performance over Eco friendly water saving.
Lid that doesn't slam and that is easy to lift for all the male urination on the house.

Not sure what other questions I need to ask, can someone please recommend the best one.

Thanks!
 

Terry

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I sell a lot of the Ultramax II toilets for many of those reasons.
Fairly quiet, with a good flush. Keeps clean in todays WaterSense era. Obviously, the 70's with five gallon bowls did better with that large swimming pool of a bowl.
But the new stuff will often work better then before, with added touches like more height, elongated, seats that drop down slowly, and better style.
 

WJcandee

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The Ultramax Ii is going to meet all your requirements. CEFIONTECT so stuff doesn't stick, slow close seat, a good bowl rinse and , quiet flush. Also, you can consider the Drake Ii, which has all those features as well. One piece vs 2 piece, we have both and it really doesn't make a difference in day to day use, except perhaps the one piece is easier to clean. Aesthetically, the one piece looks very nice in some settings. However, the two piece is a tried-and-true design, and the Drake II has a very nice two piece design. Good luck! Let us know if you have any other questions. Toto's one-piece toilets come with a nice slow close seat. You buy your own seat for the two piece. We would recommend the SS114 as an excellent Toto slow close seat.
 

Rockstead

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I sell a lot of the Ultramax II toilets for many of those reasons.
Fairly quiet, with a good flush. Keeps clean in todays WaterSense era. Obviously, the 70's with five gallon bowls did better with that large swimming pool of a bowl.
But the new stuff will often work better then before, with added touches like more height, elongated, seats that drop down slowly, and better style.

Thanks Terry, just curious but what makes you put the Ultramax II under the Ultramax I and Drake?
 

Terry

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The II series comes with CEFIONTECT in the bowl for easier cleaning, Double Cyclone Rinse, and the tall height standard.
The 1 series you pay quite a bit more to get the CEFIONTECT versions.
The letter "G" is for CEFIONTECT.
 

Wallijonn

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We are a family of 6, kids aged 5, 8,9. Even split of 3 males, 3 females. ...Comfort height, hoping it won't be too tall for kids.

You might want to consider a regular height toilet for the young'uns.

Can wipes be used with newer toilets?

Don't flush wipes - they can clog any toilet.
 
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In-laws have the older 1.6 gpf Ultramax w/CEFIONTECT in ADA height as memory serves. It is a good toilet and got me started down the Toto path, but I don't care for the extra-height of ADA's. It isn't a great height for younger children (something I observed when our children were of similar ages to yours, wasn't a major problem.) Older adults or others with some physical impairments sometimes need them so I am considering an ADA height Toto toilet for my current home in the downstairs common area. I and some others here prefer lower toilets because they provide a more natural/conducive posture for certain functions.

I've recently installed a Drake II elongated w/CEFIONTECT in the MBR and like it so far. (This forum was key to making the selection.) I prefer it's bowl rinse over the original Drake's w/CEFIONTECT we had in a prior home. However, I haven't had much time with it so this is just an early impression. Both Drake types I've used were 1.28 gpf's although the current Drake II can also use a 1 gpf tank.

I'm not as sold on the looks of the single piece toilets, but I do appreciate the cleaner design when little boys with poor aim and high hydraulic pressure are involved. My son gets to clean the kids' bathroom toilet as a result of his ambiguity in aiming. A one piece is probably a better fit for little boys who aren't concerned about what they hit.

I can't speak to the flush noise factor as I'm accustomed to the rapid emptying of Toto's, and this is a subjective thing. I'm happy if the sound is rapid and done rather than lingering...if it lingers as in various other manufacturers' "designs" then it annoys me...or worse yet, it sometimes means I have to get up and plunge a toilet. Experience has proven I get pretty surly about excessive toilet paper use in the early a.m. and I really don't sleep well after cleaning up an overflow in the night.

I'm using a slow close seat of non-Toto manufacture (Bemis plastic type) as a test. It's okay, although somewhat more beige in hue than the Toto porcelain and the cover overhangs considerably. Haven't decided which way to go on the seat with the next install in the kids' bathroom. I've been unhappy with the "enameled wood" types since they stain on the underside over time.
 
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Oh, I should have mentioned...unless you need to have them all done at the same time, you might want to pick one and try it for awhile before deciding on the other two. That is what I did in the prior home and ended up getting two more of the same design (eco-Drake's.) In this home I started with the Drake II.

If you are installing your own and pricing is unaffected then this is a good option. If you don't care as much for the initial choice it can be shuffled off to a lower use bathroom.
 

Rockstead

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In-laws have the older 1.6 gpf Ultramax w/CEFIONTECT in ADA height as memory serves. It is a good toilet and got me started down the Toto path, but I don't care for the extra-height of ADA's. It isn't a great height for younger children (something I observed when our children were of similar ages to yours, wasn't a major problem.) Older adults or others with some physical impairments sometimes need them so I am considering an ADA height Toto toilet for my current home in the downstairs common area. I and some others here prefer lower toilets because they provide a more natural/conducive posture for certain functions.

I've recently installed a Drake II elongated w/CEFIONTECT in the MBR and like it so far. (This forum was key to making the selection.) I prefer it's bowl rinse over the original Drake's w/CEFIONTECT we had in a prior home. However, I haven't had much time with it so this is just an early impression. Both Drake types I've used were 1.28 gpf's although the current Drake II can also use a 1 gpf tank.

I'm not as sold on the looks of the single piece toilets, but I do appreciate the cleaner design when little boys with poor aim and high hydraulic pressure are involved. My son gets to clean the kids' bathroom toilet as a result of his ambiguity in aiming. A one piece is probably a better fit for little boys who aren't concerned about what they hit.

I can't speak to the flush noise factor as I'm accustomed to the rapid emptying of Toto's, and this is a subjective thing. I'm happy if the sound is rapid and done rather than lingering...if it lingers as in various other manufacturers' "designs" then it annoys me...or worse yet, it sometimes means I have to get up and plunge a toilet. Experience has proven I get pretty surly about excessive toilet paper use in the early a.m. and I really don't sleep well after cleaning up an overflow in the night.

I'm using a slow close seat of non-Toto manufacture (Bemis plastic type) as a test. It's okay, although somewhat more beige in hue than the Toto porcelain and the cover overhangs considerably. Haven't decided which way to go on the seat with the next install in the kids' bathroom. I've been unhappy with the "enameled wood" types since they stain on the underside over time.

Thanks for the feedback.

Can you tell me how you made your decision to chose the Drake 2 over the Ultra max II?

Is it because the Drake doesn't come in Comfort height as you mentioned you don't like, or was it because the Drake 2 comes in a 2 piece as you mentioned you preferred that over a 1 piece?

In terms of flushing power, looks, quietness, performance, are they equal?

When I read some online reviews on the Ultra max II, there were few complains but the complains that were there mentioned issues with not getting everything down on one flush, while others mentioned it was perfect, is that an actual issue with this specific model and does another Toto perform better?

Does Toto make a 1.6gpf with all the same features, quietness of the Drake, Ultranax II models and would that improve the flushing power?

I have such bad toilets so it is hard for me to have any sort of benchmark, one of my kids has an issue where he holds on to his business for days and when he let's loose, it often results in a plunging, although I'm so used to flushing mid way to avoid any issues, so it's not really specific to him but he his business tends to be quite soft due to stool softeners and it sticks to the bowl no matter how many flushes.

I'm Anal, pardon the pun and I would want the same toilet in all locations, so I just want to get it right the first time.
 
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Thanks for the feedback.

Can you tell me how you made your decision to chose the Drake 2 over the Ultra max II?

Is it because the Drake doesn't come in Comfort height as you mentioned you don't like, or was it because the Drake 2 comes in a 2 piece as you mentioned you preferred that over a 1 piece?

In terms of flushing power, looks, quietness, performance, are they equal?

The primary differences are that I prefer the traditional look of the 2-piece as well as the significantly lower price. I'm not a fan of the wide hips on the Ultramax and all else being equal would prefer the Drake, especially the new tank of the Drake II.

I don't have experience with the comparative flush of the II's, only the I's. I had no complaints with the 1.28 gpf Drake flush or with the 1.6 gpf Ultramax flush. About the only thing I noticed was that sometimes a particle or two would sweep back in on the 1.28's (this is true for Drake I's and II's I've had.) Note I'm talking small particle/fleck...not chunk or discolored water or remaining TP.

I could be misreading something but in looking up the specs for the 1.28 gpf Drake II and Ultramax II it appears that both are now ADA compliant and are 16 1/8" height at the top rim of the bowl. The older Drake I had was shorter (bowl C744EG) at 14 5/8" height.

I have such bad toilets so it is hard for me to have any sort of benchmark, one of my kids has an issue where he holds on to his business for days and when he let's loose, it often results in a plunging, although I'm so used to flushing mid way to avoid any issues, so it's not really specific to him but he his business tends to be quite soft due to stool softeners and it sticks to the bowl no matter how many flushes.

CEFIONTECT does a good job of clearing the bowl below the water line. Smears remaining after the flush lift off within a few minutes so a flush from later urination clears them. Spatter above the water line is harder to keep clean without resorting to a brush which is why I've gone to the double cyclone rinse of the Drake II's.

The only instance I can recall of blockage in our Toto's was a large diameter hard stool from one of the kids who wasn't drinking enough water. It was a figure 8 shaped thing that turned sideways to block the trap at the bottom of the bowl. It was easy to clear though without a plunger by poking it to line it up with the drain.

Good luck!
 
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