Tank T Leak

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Johnnyf0614

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I have a few small leaks/drops at the tank t connector. Would these cause the pressure in tank to go down. My pump is now running about every 8 minutes. I did some work at the connector and now can't get the drips to stop. Have a plumber coming tomorrow to check and hopefully fix the drips. Just hoping that solves my problem of losing pressure in the tank.
 

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Just a few small drops should take hours to drain even a small tank. If you have a large tank it should not come on every 8 minutes. You probably have a bad check valve or another hole in the pipe somewhere.
 

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It's dripping in about 4 different spots. It's a steady drip too. I've closed the main valve and pressure is still leaking. WhI have makes me think it's still the dripping/leak
 

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85 I believe. When I replaced the check valve it was definitely holding the pressure. But the dripping has gradually gotten worse and thus losing pressure at a quicker rate. I've also checked the pressure tank when it was empty and it's at 38 which is 2 below my switch at 40/60.
 

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An 85 gallon tank holds 25 gallons of water. I think you would know if it was leaking 25 gallons on the floor in 8 minutes. Must have something leaking somewhere else as well.
 

Johnnyf0614

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An 85 gallon tank holds 25 gallons of water. I think you would know if it was leaking 25 gallons on the floor in 8 minutes. Must have something leaking somewhere else as well.

Agreed, I just can't find where the leak is. I've checked toilets all indoor and outdoor faucets. I've bypassed my water softener. I just don't see any other leaks except at the Tank Tee. I'm able to use a gutter downspout diverter into a floor drain, so luckly no mess on the floor. I did install a new flomatic check valve 2 weeks, so I guess that can be faulty as well. Can it be the pressure tank? I've checked the pressure in the tank while it was drained, and its showing 38psi. The only other thing I noticed, is that I didn't feel like that there was a lot of water in the tank when the pump is running. When it reached 60psi, I can still shake the pressure tank. But for comparison, I've never really shaken the tank before, so I don't know if its normal for an 85 gallon pressure tank to be shaken...

Just for clarification, my system is currently setup with the black water line coming in from the ground through the wall. That enters the new flomatic check valve which has the Pressure Gauge and Switch in it. I know I'm leaking at that connection, plus one of the plugs on the check valve. After that I'm leaking at a t-connector going into the pressure tank. Other than that, the pump seems to be running normally, on at 40, off at 60. It just doesn't hold the pressure, either due to the leaks, or faulty check valve, or both...


Regardless, plumber is coming tomorrow to fix the leaks. Hopefully that solves the problem of loss of pressure as well, but I'm not too confident after reading this and other posts...
 

Reach4

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  1. Do you have a submersible (in the well) pump? We have been presuming submersible, but could you confirm? What do you know about that pump?
  2. How long does the pump run when it runs every 8 minutes?
With a submersible pump it is usually best to have the only checkvalve to be at the pump. In this case, you have a new checkvalve near your pressure tank. That would seem to eliminate the usual suspects-- bottom check valve and the drop pipe and the black water line coming in from the ground through the wall. Unless that checkvalve is bad.... A good checkvalve up top could serve as an imperfect workaround for the usual suspects until you get the underlying problem fixed.

Answers to questions above, particularly #2 should provide some useful info IMO.
 

Johnnyf0614

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  1. Do you have a submersible (in the well) pump? We have been presuming submersible, but could you confirm? What do you know about that pump?
  2. How long does the pump run when it runs every 8 minutes?
With a submersible pump it is usually best to have the only checkvalve to be at the pump. In this case, you have a new checkvalve near your pressure tank. That would seem to eliminate the usual suspects-- bottom check valve and the drop pipe and the black water line coming in from the ground through the wall. Unless that checkvalve is bad.... A good checkvalve up top could serve as an imperfect workaround for the usual suspects until you get the underlying problem fixed.

Answers to questions above, particularly #2 should provide some useful info IMO.

Yes Sumbersible pump. Unfortunately I do not know much about it. Installed by previous owner, and have never had any issues. It takes maybe 30 seconds to to get from 4o to 60. Even when I had no issues, it took about 30 seconds. I live in NJ, and not sure if its code to have the check valve near pressure tank, but speaking with neighbors, they all have it as well.
 

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I also have not noticed any change in the actual water pressure from a faucet. That appears to be consistent as it always was. Only time I ever noticed it was a few years ago when the old pressure tank broke. Once replaced I've always had a nice steady and consistent water pressure from faucets.
 

Reach4

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It takes maybe 30 seconds to to get from 4o to 60. Even when I had no issues, it took about 30 seconds.
That would mean that you either have a way oversized pump, or your pressure tank does not have 25 gallons of drawdown. So either the tank is much smaller than 85 gallons, or there is a problem with the pressure tank. I see that you reported the 38 PSI precharge in post #5. Maybe post the make and model of your pressure tank. If you cannot find that, post the dimensions of your tank

A bad or undersized pressure tank is not going to explain your cycling symptoms however, but it will put the magnitude in perspective. If you only have a 4 gallon drawdown, that would be different from a leak of 25 gallons every 8 minutes. Still, 4 gallons every 8 minutes would be a lot more than the leaks you describe at your tank tee.

I also have not noticed any change in the actual water pressure from a faucet. That appears to be consistent as it always was. Only time I ever noticed it was a few years ago when the old pressure tank broke.
Your pressure gauge would be the place to judge pressure.

You could get another pressure gauge to be more convenient to check. They are readily available with a garden hose thread that could screw onto some suitable tap around your house-- maybe in the laundry area.
 

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That would mean that you either have a way oversized pump, or your pressure tank does not have 25 gallons of drawdown. So either the tank is much smaller than 85 gallons, or there is a problem with the pressure tank. I see that you reported the 38 PSI precharge in post #5. Maybe post the make and model of your pressure tank. If you cannot find that, post the dimensions of your tank

A bad or undersized pressure tank is not going to explain your cycling symptoms however, but it will put the magnitude in perspective. If you only have a 4 gallon drawdown, that would be different from a leak of 25 gallons every 8 minutes. Still, 4 gallons every 8 minutes would be a lot more than the leaks you describe at your tank tee.


Your pressure gauge would be the place to judge pressure.

You could get another pressure gauge to be more convenient to check. They are readily available with a garden hose thread that could screw onto some suitable tap around your house-- maybe in the laundry area.

Its an 82 gallon flotec tank. Only 2 years old. Same size tank that the previous owner had as well. Unfortunately I'm at work, and have not timed how long it takes to get from 40-60. I'm guestimating about 30 secondsish. It doesn't seem any slower or faster than what it was with the old pressure tank. The label on the tank says drawdown at 40/60 is 9.3 gallons.
 

Johnnyf0614

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http://www.flotecpump.com/ResidentialProduct_fl_hw_tk_FP7120.aspx

Ahhh.... It's a 35 gallon tank that a marketer calls 82 gallons! That exaggeration is not all that uncommon. It is based on comparing what size they think you would need in an old hydro-pneumatic tank to give the equivalent drawdown.

Yep thats the one! So do you think the timing to fill the tank (30 sec'sish) normal based on the tank I have? And I guess the time it takes to lose the pressure from 60 to 40 due to the dripping as well? Like I said, when I first installed the new check valve. It was not noticeable that I was losing pressure. It wasn't until the dripping continued to get worse and worse.
 

Reach4

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So do you think the timing to fill the tank (30 sec'sish) normal based on the tank I have?

A tank should be sized to cause the pump to run for at least a minute each time. Longer is better.

Like I said, when I first installed the new check valve. It was not noticeable that I was losing pressure. It wasn't until the dripping continued to get worse and worse.

Maybe you are greatly under-estimating the leaks? Hard to think that you could be leaking a gallon per minute and seeing that as just drips.

Here is what I think I would do: remove the new checkvalve. See if things start working right. I would make sure that the connections were all water-tight. You should never put a stop valve, such as a 1/4 turn ball valve between the pump and the pressure switch; otherwise I would be tempted to do that for troubleshooting purposes being sure it can never close off when the power to the pump is on.

I am not a pro. I might think about doing things that are improper at times.
 

Johnnyf0614

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A tank should be sized to cause the pump to run for at least a minute each time. Longer is better.



Maybe you are greatly under-estimating the leaks? Hard to think that you could be leaking a gallon per minute and seeing that as just drips.

Here is what I think I would do: remove the new checkvalve. See if things start working right. I would make sure that the connections were all water-tight. You should never put a stop valve, such as a 1/4 turn ball valve between the pump and the pressure switch; otherwise I would be tempted to do that for troubleshooting purposes being sure it can never close off when the power to the pump is on.

I am not a pro. I might think about doing things that are improper at times.

Well it is dripping in multiple places
A tank should be sized to cause the pump to run for at least a minute each time. Longer is better.



Maybe you are greatly under-estimating the leaks? Hard to think that you could be leaking a gallon per minute and seeing that as just drips.

Here is what I think I would do: remove the new checkvalve. See if things start working right. I would make sure that the connections were all water-tight. You should never put a stop valve, such as a 1/4 turn ball valve between the pump and the pressure switch; otherwise I would be tempted to do that for troubleshooting purposes being sure it can never close off when the power to the pump is on.

I am not a pro. I might think about doing things that are improper at times.
A tank should be sized to cause the pump to run for at least a minute each time. Longer is better.



Maybe you are greatly under-estimating the leaks? Hard to think that you could be leaking a gallon per minute and seeing that as just drips.

Here is what I think I would do: remove the new checkvalve. See if things start working right. I would make sure that the connections were all water-tight. You should never put a stop valve, such as a 1/4 turn ball valve between the pump and the pressure switch; otherwise I would be tempted to do that for troubleshooting purposes being sure it can never close off when the power to the pump is on.

I am not a pro. I might think about doing things that are improper at times.


I know, I find it hard to believe that I'm losing approximately 1 gallon per minute from my several leaks. And the only other place I'd be losing pressure would be from the air side of the pressure tank, which it doesn't appear to be doing as I've checked several times, and it's always showing me 38/38.5. I've closed the main valves and it didn't make any difference in regards to the timing of the release of pressure. If the tank is "advertising" as 9.3 gallons drawdown on a 40/60 switch, is it possible, that the 9.3 gallons is really less than that? This is so frustrating and unfortunately I have to wait until tomorrow for the plumber to clean up my pipe mess.
 

Reach4

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If the tank is "advertising" as 9.3 gallons drawdown on a 40/60 switch, is it possible, that the 9.3 gallons is really less than that?
Yes, to an extent. I think the 9.3 presumes there is no remaining water. You want your pump to actually be delivering water before there is no remaining water. I would expect that you would actually get something over 8 however.

When the plumber comes, what do you plan to have him do with the above-ground check valve? Putting the existing one back in place would not be a good answer IMO. Putting just a pipe or putting in a new check valve would each have their merits. How about a new checkvalve with a valve bypassing it? Non-standard, but it would let you choose to have the check valve in place or not. It would not have the disadvantage of a pure valve that could burn up the pump if you closed it with the pump power on.
 

Johnnyf0614

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Yes, to an extent. I think the 9.3 presumes there is no remaining water. You want your pump to actually be delivering water before there is no remaining water. I would expect that you would actually get something over 8 however.

When the plumber comes, what do you plan to have him do with the above-ground check valve? Putting the existing one back in place would not be a good answer IMO. Putting just a pipe or putting in a new check valve would each have their merits. How about a new checkvalve with a valve bypassing it? Non-standard, but it would let you choose to have the check valve in place or not. It would not have the disadvantage of a pure valve that could burn up the pump if you closed it with the pump power on.

My original plan was to have him fix the leaks, and replumb with my new above ground check valve that I installed last week, and hope for the best!

I'll certainly take suggestions from the plumber tomorrow as well.

Separately, if I was losing air pressure from the tank, it would most likely come from the schrader valve right? But everytime I checked the pressure when the tank was empty it was at 38, so theoretically I'm not losing pressure on the air side. There isn't anywhere else in the line that I'd be losing pressure from the air side, right? Its basically loss of pressure due to leaks or bleeding check valve, or air pressure from tank? Any other places I'm not thinking of???

Thanks again for listening, you've been very helpful!
 

Johnnyf0614

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Check your drop pipe in the well and see if they are holding water. If the drop pipe is not holding water, then their is your bigger leak, in the drop pipe itself or a check valve leaking back.

Yes I understand. I have not checked the drop pipe as of yet. I'm still trying to determine if my issue is inside the house past the above ground check valve at my pressure tank...
 

Johnnyf0614

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Yes I plan on looking down the well tomorrow morning before the plumber comes to fix the leaks I have at the check valve and tank tee.
 
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