system Recommendations for well

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by patrick2269, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    My results from water lab

    Coliform: Absent
    E.coli: Absent
    Iron bacteria: Absent
    sulfate bacteria: Absent
    Calcium: 3.2 mg/L
    Copper: 0.008 mg/L
    Iron: 1.310 mg/L
    Magnesium: 2.05 mg/L
    Manganese: 0.016 mg/L
    Silica: 18.6 mg/L
    Sodium: 3 mg/L
    Sulfate: 5.4 mg/L
    Zinc: 0.912 mg/L
    Hardness: 16 mg/L
    PH: 5.2
    TDS: 35 mg/L
    Turbidity: 9.1 NTU

    Well Info
    Date:6/12/1999
    280ft
    casing 127FT
    static 40
    yield 5GPM

    Pics
    well1.jpg well2.jpg well3.jpg
  2. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Of concern is the 5 GPM recovery rate. You don't say what the bore hole/casing size is. Also, there is no mention of what pump you use.

    As you draw down the well during backwash/regen, your GPM and pressure may drop.
  3. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    California
    In order to properly backwash an iron filter, not to mention serving the demands of your home, a storage tank and pressure supply pump for the house and water treatment are most likely a prerequisite. You need to be able to provide more like 10 GPM,

    Once you have adequate flow you can backwash a manganese dioxide iron filter and address any other problems.
  4. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    casing size 6 5/8in
    all i know about the pump is its 220V on a 30amp breaker
  5. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    LIfespeed I guess you are saying I need a new well because I don't have a place to put a storage tank
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    The well casing and bore hole act as storage. The system designer just needs to factor that in.

    I'm surprised none of the water treatment pros have posted.
  7. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    California
    That would certainly be a heroic effort to address the problem. Absent other problems with your well I would not suggest that except as a last resort. However, looking at the photo of your water and plumbing, it appears that you really need to address your iron problem.

    I don't know the exact layout and location of your well/plumbing/house so can't comment on the practicalities of installation. But the reality is that in order to successfully implement a low-maintenance backwashing iron filter you need more water flow, and a storage tank is by far the most realisitic way to accomplish this. It does not need to be huge - it could be as small as 200 gallons if size is a big issue.

    I don't know what else to tell you. If you put enough constraints on what the solution looks like you will rule them all out.
  8. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    California
    I suppose if the existing well can provide 12+ GPM for 10 minutes to backwash the filter in the middle of the night that could work. Some testing would be in order to assure this is a valid assumption, especially in the summer if the water table fluctuates. I'm sure the OP does not want to end up with a setup that fails under some circumstances.
  9. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    It's a mobile home so that's my space issue really no where to put stuff other that go outside
  10. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    This a perfect application to do some pilot testing. Something as simple as a backwashing sediment filter (micro-z, turbidex, nextsand, filter-ag+) and an iron removal sytem may work fine. A couple of test filters to simulate the media would be very inexpensive and simple to do. Are you interested in experimenting first, then installing the right equipment? Looking at your filters, your turbidity is off the charts. Your TDS and hardness are minimal.

    Have you tried different micran ratings of sediment filter to see if they clear up the water? I would try a 10 micron sediment filter. If it clears it up, a simple backwashing system should do just fine.

    Give us more information as to what you are currently doing and what the end results are.
  11. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC

    I have been trying a 2.5x10 1micron filters they last about a week, by 2 weeks water pressure drops. I have even had a few filters get crushed after 2 weeks. I guess from the water pressure trying to go in a full filter. i just added in also a 4.5x10 with a 5micron the water is much better in color. guess I might get 2 weeks with two filters but that can get expensive at $10 to $15 per filter every 2 weeks. I had a friend tell me today I could have a well casing problem as to why i am getting all this turbidity and sediment.
    I sent my water results to watersystems.com they recommended i get a backwashing sediment filter, Acid Neutralizer Filter, and MangOX Iron Filter or Hydrogen Peroxide System but the info from lifespeed is my well wont be able to handle the backwashing needs of the filter systems
  12. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Depending on how deep the pump is set, there could be as much as 350 gallons of water in reserve.
  13. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    If the 5 micron sediment filter is doing a good job then a properly designed backwashing filter should work for you.

    A neutralizer and a iron removal system should also be done. I would recommend a different design, but the general idea is sound. PM sent.
  14. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    I had a well contractor come run a camera down the well. I have heavy iron buildup and its braking down the casing. Every time my pump turns on pulling all stuff of the walls causing my high Turbidity and the pieces of hard sediment are actually pieces of my casing breaking up. He said the water in the vanes is clear and he could put in a heavy duty PVC liner and that would clear up the water by not letting iron buildup on the steel walls and then fine tune my water with any needed filters.
  15. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    That is great to hear. Hopefully it will take care of the problem and very little filtration will be needed. With your permission, I may use your pictures in my training seminars.
  16. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    You can, I can send more pictures if you want
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You need to know more about the pump you have. What gpm and HP it is and, at what depth is it in the well.

    The acidic water is what is causing the casing to deteriorate, not the rust build up from the iron content.

    The driller should be able to use a well cleaning brush to clean the rust off the inside of the casing. And IMO he should have done that as soon as he started the camera inspection and saw the rust build up; cameras don't see through rust.

    A PVC liner is usually 4" and allows just enough space for a standard 4" submersible pump by about a 16th inch around the pump; they are 3 7/8" OD. With your iron content rust build up in the PVC may make pulling the pump difficult in time.

    That 5 gpm you mentioned is the volume of water that refills the well while or after you pump water out of it. For the static water level to fall, you have to be taking more than 5 gpm out.

    A 6" casing/well holds 1.47 gal per foot of water above the inlet of the pump. A 1/2 HP 10-13 gpm pump set at 150' and operated at 40/60 psi would provide more than enough gpm to backwash most types of the filters you need. A larger HP 10-13 gpm pump could be set much deeper.

    I would suggest a backwashed mixed bed acid neutralizing filter over any type solution feeder and its required retention tank. An AN filter will add about 10+ gpg of hardness. And then you'll probably want a softener.

    The model number of your pump will tell us what HP and gpm it is. Some times that info is written on the underside of the well casing cap, or on a pump control box if you have one, or on the pressure tank. And there's always the receipt for the pump installation.
  18. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    California
    Good point, I did not notice how acid the water is. That is pretty bad. Kind of surprising a well driller familiar with the area would put a steel casing in an acid well, isn't it?
  19. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    I was not home when he came out the girl friend was here. so he called me over the phone and that is about what I got from what he was trying to explain my problem and solution over the phone. I will ask if he got any info off the pump. I have only been in the house 2 years and the pressure tank and switch where replaced before i moved in so i have no info about the pump.
    so I guess my next ?
    Is a PVC liner a good idea?
    with my casing being 127ft can the pump go down to 150ft? like you said set a larger pump deeper
  20. patrick2269

    patrick2269 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NC
    I don't know who drilled the well back in 99. but from my understanding from the guy i am talking to is that its a common problem and the county knows about it but does nothing to require the drillers to use anything different than steel. its really much up to the owner of the land to know about the problem and fix it or ask the driller to use a different material
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