Supply lines and drain for washing machines.

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by MarcSavage, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. MarcSavage

    MarcSavage New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I know running pipes in insulated outside walls is not permitted but are there any exceptions for basements. I've insulated the foundation wall with R7.5 extruded foam then built a 2X4 wall frame with Roxul (Mineral Wool) R13.5 batts. My stackable washer/dryer are located on the outside wall and I would like to conceal the plumbing in the wall if at all possible. Am I asking for trouble?

    P.S. I live in Ottawa, Canada where it gets very cold in the winter.

    Thanks
    Marc Savage
  2. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    If the outside walls are well below ground level, I wouldn't worry. Make sure there are no drafts on the pipes.....There is probably heat in the basement?
  3. MarcSavage

    MarcSavage New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    The basement is heated and I would be running the pipes 24" of the floor and proximately 3' blow outside ground level.

    Thanks for the advice.

    Marc
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,302
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    I'd keep the pipes between the finished wall and the insulation. In other words, don't insulate the pipes from the basement's heat.
  5. MarcSavage

    MarcSavage New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Thanks for the advice guys. I have another question regarding the diameter of the standpipe connected to the supply box. I know that I'm supposed use 2" but I was wondering if I can reduce the diameter to 1.5" after the trap to make easier to run the pipe through the 16' 2x4 wall. Am I going to run into an overflow situation?

    Thanks

    Marc Savage
  6. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,302
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    That's a major NO-NO. You never reduce the size of a drain. You must stay the same or increase the size.
  7. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    Also washing machines of today discharge water at a greater rate than they once did.
  8. tedn332

    tedn332 New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Could you add 2X2's to the studs to give room for 2" pipe?
  9. MarcSavage

    MarcSavage New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I was talking to a plumber this afternoon and he told me that the code here in Ontario is 1-1/2" for the laundy standpipe. I have a front load LG washer....will I run into problems using 1-1/2"?
  10. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,302
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    You may. As previously noted, newer washers discharge water much faster than older models and this can overload a 1-1/2" drain. That's why 2" is now code in most places.
  11. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    exurban Chicago
    Drill a 2-9/16" hole thru the 2x4's, we do it all the time.
  12. 1.5" drain for Washer is OK for me too

    I'm close to you Marc and my concrete highrise condo building was equipped with a 1.5" drain and 1.5" vent for washing machines, in each condo unit. After a run of 12 feet, they then drain into a 2" stack.

    No matter how hard I try to get plumbers and buildgin professionals here to tell me that a 2" pipe is required, I never get that answer.

    On the other hand, everyone in every discussion forum always says that a 2" diameter drain is required.

    So I guess that Ontario and Quebec (at least) do not require a 2" pipe, and that nobody has pointed that out here. Until now. But that is only a guess.

    My front-loading washer is several years old now and it drains fine. Kenmore.

    David
  13. MarcSavage

    MarcSavage New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I've finished the back wall framing and I'm ready to do the plumbing. If you look at the pictures in order you'll see where I've installed supply box and where the drain pipe needs to go at the end of the second wall. The length is approx. 8' + 1-90deg elbow + 8' to the 1-1/2" copper pipe. The supply box is 32" off the floor and I'll be making my connection to the main copper pipe about 7" off the floor.

    I'll be using 1-1/2" ABS

    -Is my supply box high enough?
    -How much slope should I plan for? Is 1/4"per foot enough?
    -Should the vent be as close as possible to the trap with a max of distance of 3'?
    -Can I tie in a utility sink I am installing on the second wall under the window to the same drain pipe?

    http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ma...e=http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

    Thanks for the help guys.

    Marc
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2006
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,810
    Location:
    New England
    When putting new things in...you are really doing yourself a disservice by not using 2" for a washing machine drain. While some washing machines will fare well with a smaller one, many (not all) won't work well without a 2" drain line. The area on a 2" line is nearly twice as large...it will flow a bunch more water faster than a 1.5" line. The slightest restriction in the pipe, and you may have water everywhere.
  15. MarcSavage

    MarcSavage New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    I appreciate the response. I've received so many different opinions on using 1-1/2" vs. 2" I don't know what to do. Granted using 2" will eliminate any possible backup problems I have one hesitation. I'm not quite sure how to tackle the connection to what looks like a 2" cast or galvanized hub.

    I've attached a picture of the drain pipe. With my limited knowledge, looks like 1-1/2" copper into 1-1/2" to 2" brass reducer that is connected to what look like some sort of cast or galvanized flange that is encased in the concrete. Any insights on what is involved with converting this to my 2” ABS?

    Marc

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 16, 2006
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,810
    Location:
    New England
    I'll leave the details to the pros on how to best approach this. I don't think it is that tough, but I've not done it.

    The scrap value of copper is over $3/pound I hear, so don't just trash the stuff you take out.
  17. Gencon

    Gencon Renovator

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Etobicoke, Canada
    MarcSavagge! Imagine finding you here!

    Ontario Code still alows for 1 1/2" laundry drain.It must be trapped and vented.
    If you are running water lines in an exterior wall, they must be in front of the insulation and in front of the VB. 3' below grade should be fine, especially if you used the ridgid foam.

    HD sells a neat little connector for attaching your washing machine discharge hose to 1 1/2" ABS pipe, about $6.
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,810
    Location:
    New England
    What is allowed, and what will work well with today's machines isn't always the same thing! If you can, change it to 2" while you're there.
  19. chris8796

    chris8796 New Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Illinois
    If this is being inspected, I would check on what your area permits on knotching/boring studs. Even on non-load bearing wall, some only permit 40% or 60% through a doubled up stud.
  20. Try copper drain to save space

    Marc,

    To really save space, buy a length of 1.5" in copper! I can get it in Montreal for $60 Canadian dollars. The Outside diameter is a lot less than a PVC drain. And it drains quieter too. I can get a 2" copper drain pipe for only a few dollars more.

    Here's a little humour:
    In Canada we can buy all the same washers as in the US, as far as I know. But the laws of physics don't apply the same way here, as no one has ever had a problem draining down a 1.5" drain here. Must be the superior venting, or some property of the air here. Since we all know that replacing air and water in equivalent volumes is what enables drains to work well. I think the big thing that might lead to an eventual or possible drain problem is whether the vent is going to prevent flow. A lot of water going sideways for eight feet? Sounds like a job for ... superventing! My two cents.

    I notice that copper still is cheap in Canada too. Must be a reason for that too. :)


    David
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