Submersible Pump Piping question

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by murky0933, May 28, 2011.

  1. murky0933

    murky0933 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Daphne Alabama
    I have 160 foot deep well that has a problematic pump. I am in the process off pulling the pump and have found that is has 20 foot sections of 1 1/2 inch straight PVC pipe connected together with metal pipe couplings. After exposing the first section of pipe I tried to take the pipes apart at the metal connections but the connection will not come apart. At this point I am at a standstill. I would like to salvage the pipe as there is nothing wrong with it. Is there a problem with cutting the pipe approx 12 inches above the metal joint and then when I put the new pump down the hole I would just use plastic couplings to join the pipes together where I made the cuts. I would just leave the metal connectors on the pipe.

    I guess in summary.. Is it Ok to use PVC connectors on deep well pumps?
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    That would be sch 80 threaded PVC since it has metal couplings. You don''t have to take it apart at all. Just don't bend it too much at the couplings where it is threaded. It will bend more than you think, but don't bend it much when it is really cold. Have someone take the well seal or pitless half across the yard while another one or two pull it up. You can set it back the same way.

    Don't cut it and glue it back together!
  3. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    It might have glued on male adapters like they did around here before. Cut them right at the coupler and use the pipe elsewhere.

    Cut it above the coupler so when the pipe slips in your holder, it doesnt go down the hole.
  4. murky0933

    murky0933 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Daphne Alabama
    Valveman thanks for the quick response.

    What would be the minimum bend radius that the 1 1/2 inch pipe could handle. I am in Alabama so the cold is not an issue.

    One problem that I have with this suggestion is I actual had to set up a 20 foot scaffold and chainfall to pull the pump and pipe out of the hole. I had great difficulty pulling the pump up the first fifteen feet. The pipe is currently running up through the center of the scaffold. Unless the pipe can handle a pretty significant bend radius how do I control the 2o or 30 feet of pipe that I have out of the ground. It will have a tendancy to fall over and then it will break.

    I am open to trying this but in the end if it breaks can I connect the broken sections with PVC connectors that I can glue with ease or do I have to go back with the metal connectors?

    Thanks
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  5. murky0933

    murky0933 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Daphne Alabama
    Ballvalve are you suggesting the that metal couplings are glued to the 1 1/2 PVC pipe? I have not seen this before but then again I have never pulled a well pump before. Would you reinstall the PVC pipe with PVC couplings?
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  6. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,274
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    PVC cemented couplings were not designed to have weight hanging from them and should not be used in a well.
    Use a pipe wrench to hold the coupling and a strap wrench to turn out the pipe. New PVC drop pipe is not that expensive; if I were having much trouble getting it apart I would cut it off in pieces and replace it with new.
  7. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    If its old, the practice was to glue male adapters onto the pipe and then use galv couplers to connect them. Pretty unusual to find schedule 80 threaded end pipe from long ago.

    How long in the hole? any pictures? writing on pipe?

    Unless its a 5hp pump, 1" black POLY would be a good replacement, and use the pipe elsewhere.

    A couple of grunts can pull the whole string without any rigging at all. Pull it as one unit. I use a hinged 4x6 with a hole that just fits the pipe, where you can clamp it up to have a rest during the program.

    If you cut it, dont reuse it.
  8. murky0933

    murky0933 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Daphne Alabama
    An update in progress, again thanks for the advice to date. With some larger pipe wrenches I was able to break the connections and ultimately pull the pump out of the casing. Actually went well, had it out in a couple hours with some help from my wife.

    The pump is an older model Sta Rite that is no longer made so I am looking for a replacement. The pump was 3 5/8 inch in diameter. Casing is just 4 inch ID. Most newer pumps seem to be 3 7/8 inch unless a person goes to the Grundfos SQE variable frequency pumps which are 3 inch. I am nervous about this as I have read allot of negative comments about excess complexity.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for a replacement brand of pump that they have good luck with. My STA-RITE pump had a 2 hp franklin motor on it. Well depth is 151 feet, max flow 30 GPM...
  9. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    Those old sta-rites were pretty good pumps, my dads original lasted 30 years. Any "4-inch " pump should be able to fit into a 4" well. It is a tight fit however. I have never ordered one but Sta-Rite made a "slim-line" pump, I have their catalog from a few years ago and their slim-line pump is still in there. Not sure if it's still in production.

    I like Goulds, but there are a lot of good pumps out there. Stay away from the Big Box pumps, they are cheaply made and will not give you the same service life. Also I would go back with that sch 80 PVC, it is much more stronger and durable than black poly pipe.

    A 2-HP pump is a pretty sizable pump for that well. Unless you're doing a lot of watering etc. a 1-HP 10 GPM pump would be a good choice.
  10. murky0933

    murky0933 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Daphne Alabama
    Thanks for the advice. Today I purchased a Goulds pump from Locke in Orlando. The reason for the size of the pump is that I have acre that I irrigate. I will give an update once I have the pump installed and running. Thanks again
  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    With a 30 GPM pump you really need a Cycle Stop Valve so you can use it like a small pump without hurting anything. Otherwise you better make sure you USE 30 GPM everytime you turn on water.
  12. murky0933

    murky0933 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Daphne Alabama
    I discussed a Cycle Stop Valve with the technical people at http://www.lockewell.com (these people are great, good service, good prices on pumps). What we discussed was which model I should buy the CSV1Z or the CSV2W if I were to buy one. We talked about the large difference in price, obviously I would like to get away with the cheaper one. In my situation the system is generally used for irrigation and to fill ponds so the typical flow is large but I would like to get off of the city water system. This would be the reason that I would be in the market for a cycle stop valve. It is just a little difficult to spend the money on the cycle stop valve when I have just put so many dollars into the new pump.

    Each zone on my sprinkler system demands 26 GPM. I bought a Goulds 33GS20 submersible.

    I would be interested in your comments.

    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  13. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    That 33GS will pump 26 GPM at 50 PSI from 105’. So if your pumping level is higher than 105’, you will have more flow and pressure than needed. If your pumping level is lower than 105’, you will have less pressure and flow than needed. With all zones at 26 GPM, you can adjust your pressure switch to keep the pump running constant. 40/60 if the pumping level is 105’. 30/50 if the water level is lower than 105’. And 50/70 if the water level is higher than 105’. Then as long as you don’t irrigate any with garden hoses, you won’t need a CSV.

    However, if you are trying to get off city water for the house as well, a CSV would be a good way to go. If the pumping level is deeper than 105’, the CSV will allow you to reduce the sprinkler zone sizes to about 21 GPM, so you have enough water left to use in the house while the sprinklers are running. If the pumping level is higher than 105’, the CSV will let you stay at 40/60 without the pump cycling on 26 GPM zones.

    The best CSV for that pump would be the CSV1.25-50. It has better flow characteristics than the brass valves and cost less ($159.00). You just have to be careful of where you install it. The best place to install is in the well casing, using the CSC1.25 weight-bearing coupling ($84.00). But you can also put it in a valve box, or just leave it outside at the wellhead.
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