Submersible pump motors

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Cameronxwr, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. Cameronxwr

    Cameronxwr New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    utah
    I am looking to get a ball park on how long it would take to remove a submersible well pump from a well, replace the motor and place the repaired pump back in the well. Also if anyone has an idea of where I can find costs on different HP motors for these pumps. And does it take longer to change a .05hp verses 2hp. I work with insurance contractors and I would like to make sure they are allotted enough time to do this type of repair. At this time we have 30 min to pull up the pump, and 3 hrs to repair and replace the pump back in the well.

    Thanks
    Cameron
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,388
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The horsepower of the pump doesn't matter as much as the depth of the well. It takes considerably more time and bigger equipment to pull and set a 500' deep pump, as it does a 50' deep pump. Also there is a big difference in time and equipment needed between steel pipe and poly pipe. $100 maybe too much for a 50' pump on poly pipe, while $1,000 may not be enough for a 500' pump on steel pipe. Give us some specifics like a 1 HP pump, 200' on sch 80 PVC, and we can get you a better number.
  3. Cameronxwr

    Cameronxwr New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    utah
    I am basing this on a 4" pump with a depth of aprox. 150' pvc. Taking your example above what time frame and cost would you recommend. We have $615.00 to repair and place the pump back in the well and $415.00 to remove the pump from the well for a rough estimate of $1030.00 + the cost of the motor. I also was looking at giving a option of a LF price of $4.00 to repair and place pump back in well and $2.75 to remove pump from the well so the same scenario would be $1012.50 + the cost of the motor (your example would have a rough estimate of $1350.00 + cost of motor). I do not have experience with well pumps so any insite on this would be much appreciated. Sorry the info is so vague.
    Thanks
    Cameron
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,388
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Where can I send my resume? In my area I see $300 to $600 for a complete pull and set, plus the price of the equipment.
  5. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    ... and if the wells are for potable water, be sure they get sanitized after the pump work has been completed!
  6. Sommer

    Sommer New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Prince George, BC
    I think maybe I'm getting gouged?

    Had my well quit last week (shared with neighbor, both of us have little ones in the house) so I called around and the only guy that answered at that time of night said he would be over first thing to have a look.

    He came over about 7:30am took a quick meter reading and said the pump was probably shot, would get one ordered and be back in an hour or so to replace it. Now I had my pump repaired about 7-8 years ago and they did not replace it, just fixed some wiring, so I kind of figured it was time, so no problem.

    However, this is what I am being charged:

    ~ $1,500 for the pump (3/4hp, 7gpm, 230V, 2-wire stainless c/w motor)
    $3+ /ft for sched 120 pvc
    $3+ /ft for 4c10 pump drop wire
    $165 x 5hrs to pull up (2 guys and a truck parked right on top of the well)

    My well is 132ft deep, static level is 109, pump set at 120 (although somehow I was charged for 160ft of pvc and 170ft of wire?)

    So besides the extra 40ft of pvc, 50ft of wire, and what I think is a pretty high rate and # of hrs to do the job, my pump is only 2 wire and less than 250ft from my house including drop, so is 4c10g wire really necessary let alone sched 120 pipe?

    And the biggest thing to me is the pump cost, I mean I see these things ranging from $500-700 online, is this pump so much better or am I just getting screwed?

    Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
  7. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I would lean toward the bent me over thought. What brand pump? If the guy set an ACE he got it for 275 bucks. I hope its a gold plated Grunfos for 1500$

    5 hours to pull must have included 3-1/2 hours of lunch. Only needed 3 wires, 2 actually. [could have been smaller gauge, but its not a big deal, and thats what he HAD around] The pipe sells for @1$ a foot.

    He did come and do it quick, but I would have washed in a bucket for a week and saved a few thousand.

    Better check the lengths, that moves screwed with the add on of fraud.

    Of course you had a written estimate prior to his pull, right?
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  8. Sommer

    Sommer New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Prince George, BC
    Yeah definitely leaning that way, thanks for the confirmation.

    A few thousand? That bad eh? The lengths I think are good, I was there when he pulled up the old black hose, which he said should be replaced, though I am doubtful now.

    The pump is a Franklin J-Class Sandhandler 7JS07S4-2W230

    Any idea what that 4/10 pump drop wire is worth? Am I right about the pump itself being worth about $600 on the street? (I'm sure he buys them for a lot less than I could anyway)

    So you figure this is what a 2-3 hr job? What about that hourly rate?

    I'm just not sure how to proceed as I haven't paid the bill yet, am trying to get some competitve quotes but after the fact not sure how much good it will do me. I am prepared to take serious issue with the bill but can I legally refuse to pay that much do you know?
  9. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    If the pump was on black poly pipe, the pull would have taken me about 15 minutes without a truck. If it was 120 or 160 psi it was likely good for another 50 years.

    I have been a contractor in quite a few trades for too long to say and NEVER went to court. Thats because you give a price beforehand and if the customer has a valid complaint you sit down and work the numbers. Better to take a 400$ discount than to loose it all in court and to some sleazy lawyer.

    Had a close estimate? pay the guy and suck it up. No estimate and you can cry wolf and beat him down quite a bit. Or be a real A-whole and don't pay it like so many people do now in this day and age.

    I have often gotten final payments from morons that have a few hundred deducted because some board was warped or a paint color was a shade off, or his kid sucked some leftover dust on the floor... and from seemingly nice people that never complained on site. They have learned that no contractor can afford to chase you for 200 or 400 bucks. Usually those are also your wealthiest clients.

    I am sure some full time well pros can tell you more. But this is why I became my OWN well pro.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  10. Sommer

    Sommer New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Prince George, BC
    Thanks again,

    I won't refuse to pay at all, I have no problem paying a fair price for good work, and I think he did good work even if some of it was overkill, and I don't even mind paying a bit of a premium for the quick service, but I don't like getting a sore ass just because he was the first guy to pick up the phone. I've called another repair place, they've told me it would take them about 3 hrs total including replacing the poly with sched 120 (@ $2.50/ft) (which they said also is not necessary) they charge $100/hr, wire at $1.25/ft, although they did say the pump would be $1,500 as well. I just checked Home Depot for the wire, they only sell 4c12 pump drop and at $2/m (I'm being charged ~ $10/m for 4c10) I was also told there that submersible pumps can now only be sold to licensed installers in BC at least, which explains why they cost so much being that there are only 3-4 installers in this area. But I know I can get the exact same pump for $600-800 online, and even though I can't buy one from them a wholesaler did tell me theirs were ~ $800, I'm going to confirm that on Monday with more specifics and then figure out how much I'd like to pay and how much I'm willing to pay.

    Complication is my neighbour is paying half and he seems to have no problem paying for anything and said as much constantly while the contractor was here, "let's get the new pipe, well worth it" "What's one of those pumps worth, $1,500?" "How can we pay you, can we just give you our credit card #'s right now?" That sort of thing all day which ticked me off at the time as I never sound too eager to pay and always want to know how much first but I'm sure that's part of why we're getting it up the out hole now.

    I know what you mean about DIY, sure didn't look too complicated, aside from some of the tools which could be worked around I'm sure and setting the valve for the right pressure and gpm, but at the time it was just let's get the water back on, should have known.

    Anyway, thanks again for the reply.

    Cheers.
  11. Waterwelldude

    Waterwelldude Well driller,pump repair. and septic installer

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Texas
    Has anyone ever taken into account the cost of being in the well business?
    Insurance for trucks, employees and general liability?
    parole?
    cost of up keep, for trucks, tools?
    tools it takes?
    fuel to get to a job?

    How much does it cost to get a big truck tire fixed? Min. of a hundred dollars.
    If someone can go out and charge $300 for pulling a well and replace the pump. and he has a flat on the way home.
    All the profit he just thought he made is gone.

    You get what you pay for.


    Travis
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  12. Sommer

    Sommer New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Prince George, BC
    OK but like I said I don't mind paying a fair price and even a bit of a premium for quick service. Are you saying nobody gouges in this business? Seems to me the other pros I called were a lot more reasonable.

    What would you charge for this job labour and materials?

    Also I have to take issue with your flat tire scenario, that's a cost of doing business, put enough miles on you will get some flats, but that's overhead that's built in to those hourly rates, not part of the cost of doing a particular bit of work.

    Anyway it just seems more and more to me that the reason this guy answer's his phone any time of night is because it allows him to charge whatever he wants, and that's why he came over so early before any other place got back to me after leaving messages. I think that's taking advantage of people and I'm not one to take that laying down.
  13. Waterwelldude

    Waterwelldude Well driller,pump repair. and septic installer

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Texas



    There is nothing wrong with shopping around for a good price.
    If there is a price that is way cheaper than others, theres a reason. Dosen't come back when there is a problem with the well, while in warranty, or uses cheap parts.
    If there is a price way higher than others there is a reason. Open 24hours when other arnt. he can charge more, but that also doesn't mean he will do a better job.


    Travis
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  14. Sommer

    Sommer New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Prince George, BC
    OK, so getting charged ~$3,500 for a 3/4hp 2 wire 230V 7gpm including 120ft sched 120 and wire all in would be some pretty good gouging, no?

    We didn't talk money until the job was half done, and even then he wasn't talking about that kind of change.

    Is that my fault for trusting that the guy would charge a fair price for his work?
  15. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    YES - if you dont ask, an ethically bankrupt [maybe monetarily one also] contractor will always try and screw you. I pretty much dislike 80% of the tradesman in my area, they are just predators waiting to feed from a wounded whale. Thank the saints that you have a dope neighbor willing to pay half of the gouge, which makes it almost palatable.

    And waterwelldude, you mentioned 'parole' as a part of cost of doing business. I would agree - guys that price gouge are probably on parole, or serving weekends at the local jail for several reasons and they add that in as a cost of "doing business" [!]

    Parole around here costs way more than a flat tire.

    Sounds like this guy deserves a check with a pretty hefty deduction. But you screwed up big time with the one guy only and no quote.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  16. Waterwelldude

    Waterwelldude Well driller,pump repair. and septic installer

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Texas
    LOL... spellcheck goes a long way.

    But the sad part is, that is true for some of the riff-raff that claim to be professionals.
    There are some in this area that do just that.
    If you ask most people there view or conception of a water well person, they will say a fat guy that is drunk most of the time.

    There are those of use that do our best to change that.

    Then there are post like this one that puts that bad view back in peoples minds.


    Sommer;
    No, I agree, that is too high for what you got.
    Maybe discussing the price may not have been a bad idea before he started.

    I did not mean to start an argument in any way.
    I may have came across the wrong way with my post.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  17. Sommer

    Sommer New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Prince George, BC
    No worries, I can see the other side from a reasonable contractor who probably gets screwed his fair share too from deadbeats, and chiselers, I am neither, just a homeowner with a kid trying to keep the necessities of life on tap for her, I definitely should have known better, I just have this neighbour with money to burn apparently who did way too much talking and obviously gave this guy the green light to write his own ticket.

    Anyway, I'm going to try to reason with him and get it knocked down some but I have a feeling it will get pissy, but I think I'll eventually have to tell him he can either adjust his invoice to at least a somewhat fair amount and I will pay that right away, or I won't pay a dime until he does, I don't want it to look like I owe him anything when I pay less than this invoice amount.
  18. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    An afterthought and in the future! Contract only National Ground Water Assn. members and/or members of your states Water Well Association. This gives you some teeth in the event of a dispute. Contract only state licensed well drillers or pump installers.

    Call around get quotes by phone then a contract in writing before work starts. Be very aware of those that can get to you right away. . . they probably aren't busy for some reason.

    If you use the computer, Google for well drillers/pump installers in your area. Most will show their web sites with Certifications, Afilliations, Experience and Licenses. If you don't use the computer use the Yellow Pages to look up reputable contractors.

    People out of water are usually targets for larger fees!
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