Sub pump 370' down on poly pipe?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by coyote, Jun 4, 2011.

  1. coyote

    coyote New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    angwin, california
    My 1.5 Hp sub pump is hanging on 370 feet of 1.25" galvanized pipe. It will need replacing soon, and I am interested in installing the new pump with polyethylene roll pipe and a stainless cable so that I could possibly remove it myself with a winch instead of having to employ the two guys and a crane. Has anyone done such a deep well that way, or does it really have to be rigid, threaded pipe? I could go to a smaller pump (I have 12,000 gallons of storage) and 1" pipe, I suppose, to reduce the weight. I am assuming the weight would be born by the cable, maybe 3/16"... Thanks for any replies.
  2. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I would use 200 psi pipe and extra long barb fittings not of plain steel. Let the pump hang on the pipe and keep the cable for backup.

    You need RATED ss clamps for torque and quality and lots of them. Heat the pipe only with hot water to insert.

    Check dean bennet supply online and graingers for clamps.

    much smaller pump sounds good.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011
  3. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    I really like sch 80 pvc, which is rated for 900 psi and much stronger than the black poly pipe. What is your water level?

    Either way, I would forget the cable as it's just something else that can come loose and jam the pump in the casing.
  4. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    For the homeowner, poly is a lot easier... [built on the surface] Even if he drops it, its not lost
  5. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    You know I don't care for poly but even still, pulling 300+ feet of poly, cable, and pump, all full of water, will still be a chore, even with the poly. I'm seeing pumps lasting 10-20 years, is the poly that big a deal that is has to be able to be pulled by hand, once every decade or two?
  6. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,461
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    370' of 1" poly full of water will weigh 236#, add 150# for pump and wire and the total will weigh 386#. If you have a high static water level, buoyancy will take about half the weight off. I have a 220' well with a static of 4'. I can lift the whole thing with one hand, and I nearly have to push the pump back down the hole.
  7. coyote

    coyote New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    angwin, california
    I was wondering how you grip poly pipe to attach a cable if you are lifting it, say 10 feet a a time, and have to keep reattaching the hoist cable. It seems the pipe would squash very easily...
  8. coyote

    coyote New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    angwin, california
    The water level is down at about 350'. So I definitely would need a hoist of some sort.
  9. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,461
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Thats when it is better to use sch 80 PVC, have a nice hoist truck, a little experience, and maybe some insurance.
  10. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    I also have a 200' well with the pump set at about 180' on sch 80 PVC. The water level is less than 20 ft. I can barely lift the pipe up. Glad I have the hoist.
  11. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,973
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    200 PSI poly would be cutting it too close at that level. You would have 160 PSI just in the weight of the water, plus whatever working pressure.
  12. coyote

    coyote New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    angwin, california
    Well (no pun intended), I guess it looks like the truck and crew are the way to go...But I always like a challenging project and usually do all my own building, plumbing, electrical, mechanicing, etc. Thanks for all the replies.
  13. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    He has 12000 gallons of storage so we may assume NO pressure except the head, and 200 PSI poly can be driven over by a truck and take about 600 psi to begin to think about bursting.

    I think a couple of gorillas can still pull it, we have done 350'.... If not, his cable with a rigged up roller and guide can be lowered and raised by a prius or a garden tractor.
  14. coyote

    coyote New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    angwin, california
    Actually, there are another 25 feet of head to the top of the tanks--so 400 total feet of head if the water level gets down near the pump. Did you pull that 350' with just hands? Hey Ballvalve, do you know Mark and Penny by some chance? They are music friends of mine in Northfork.
  15. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Yes, by hand. but you can clamp the pipe with a block of serious wood with a barely undersize hole - no squash.

    Did they ever play with that violinist girl from El Portal? There was a musician in North fork that had an artist wife but I think they were smart enough to sell and move before the crash.
  16. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    At 400 ft of head your pressure coming out of the head of that pump is about 173 psi. Not much room left on that 200 psi rated poly pipe. I hear they are making 250 psi pipe now though.

    I wouldn't want to pull it by hand in any case.
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    If the water level gets down to to the pump, there's none in the drop pipe for you to lift, right?

    You should shut off the inlet to the tanks or have a check valve on the inlet so as to not lose the water in the tanks as you disconnect to pull the pump.

    For less than a service call for a pump hoist truck, buy a couple tools and use your PU or garden tractor to pull it. And since you have all that storage, I'd use 1" 200 psi rated PE pipe, extended length SS insert/barbed fittings with 3 SS hose clamps each fitting properly torqued with the T handle torque wrench any place selling the clamps should have.

    No cable or rope, or torque arrestor, just cable guards from the pump up every 20-25 feet and water proof electrical tape mid way between them.

    Here are the tools;
    http://www.campbellmfg.com/catalog/r05.htm
  18. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
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