Strange electrical experiences

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Travis Hall

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I am new to any type of forum. Please excuse anything that appears ignorant.

I recently purchased a 5 year old singlewide mobile home. It was lived in for 4 years and was vacant for the past year. It has an over the range microwave that was really nice. The other night after my wife had warmed a pizza in it. She was almost finished eating and then I heard a pop sound and went into the kitchen and it was smoking. Not very much. But you could see a little smoke. It is fried. The refrigerator also stopped cooling. I had it checked. 2 fan motors are burnt up and the timer switch. The next morning my wife couldn't get her hair dryer to work in either bathroom. They both have ground fault receptacles. She then plugged it in the living room outlet and the washer (which unknown to us had apparently stopped running mid cycle) turned on and tried to finish the cycle.

I flipped all breakers off and back on then everything seemed to be working until Wednesday 2 nights ago. My wife turned on a microwave to heat food and the freezer door was open. The light started blinking and the microwave bogged way down. She didn't run it any longer and left everything alone. I came home last night and tried to use the microwave and it was still doing the same thing. I tried in different outlets including the bathroom receptacles.

Last night she turned off the ceiling fan by the switch at the door and the TV turned off and back on. I know a little about electricity. But this has me confused. It seems when heavier appliances are being used that it is draining power from other places in the home. I am going to check the power coming into the house to make sure that I don't have a dead phase. But I am completely lost. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

Reach4

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Sounds like an open or intermittent neutral coming into the breaker box. Get an electrician, or get a voltmeter and start troubleshooting. You may in fact be able to get the electric company to diagnose and maybe repair. The problem may be in their wiring, but it may be in your wiring.

If the problem is limited to two circuits, it could be a single shared neutral after the breaker box. If the problem affects all circuits, then the line from the electric company to the breaker box is the probable problem.

When you get the voltmeter, start measuring voltages. First at outlets, which should be about 120 volts. If you see less than 110 or more than 130 or more than 5 volt differences between any two outlets, that would tend to confirm an open neutral theory.

I would pull open the front of the breaker box and start measuring, but you should have an electrician do that.

I would move quickly, because you don't want to smoke more stuff.
 

Travis Hall

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Sounds like an open or intermittent neutral coming into the breaker box. Get an electrician, or get a voltmeter and start troubleshooting. You may in fact be able to get the electric company to diagnose and maybe repair. The problem may be in their wiring, but it may be in your wiring.

If the problem is limited to two circuits, it could be a single shared neutral after the breaker box. If the problem affects all circuits, then the line from the electric company to the breaker box is the probable problem.

When you get the voltmeter, start measuring voltages. First at outlets, which should be about 120 volts. If you see less than 110 or more than 130 or more than 5 volt differences between any two outlets, that would tend to confirm an open neutral theory.

I would pull open the front of the breaker box and start measuring, but you should have an electrician do that.

I would move quickly, because you don't want to smoke more stuff.
Thanks. I have measured everything but everything seems fine. The only time that I see a problem is if I try to run something that pulls a lot of AMPs. Everything seems right until something is turned on and tries to run. I'll call the power company. Thanks for the help.
 

hj

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By itself, it does NOT run because it has no neutral. When you turn something on that shares the bad neutral, you are running on a "series" 240 volt line and which ever one used more power will affect the other one, since they will pull the same amperage.
 

Cacher_Chick

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Does your trailer have aluminum wiring? Have you inspected the service connections in the main panel? Can you isolate the problem to some or all of the circuits in the panel?
 

Travis Hall

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By itself, it does NOT run because it has no neutral. When you turn something on that shares the bad neutral, you are running on a "series" 240 volt line and which ever one used more power will affect the other one, since they will pull the same amperage.
I am not completely sure what you are saying. I'm sorry. But I just got home and the power company had been here to inspect their side. He said that everything was perfect. I came in and checked all connections in the breaker box and when I plugged in the microwave to see if it fixed it. I fried my other refrigerator. The power company engineer said that it sounds like an open neutral to him and that sounds like you are saying the same thing. My only question is. How do I find it?
 

Travis Hall

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Does your trailer have aluminum wiring? Have you inspected the service connections in the main panel? Can you isolate the problem to some or all of the circuits in the panel?
It has copper wiring throughout. I can't seem to isolate it at all. It is all throughout the house. I found some connections that I could tighten and my other refrigerator just blew up as well.
 

Travis Hall

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I have used a plug in tester that shows if you have an open ground or neutral or whatever may be the problem. I noticed that about half of the receptacles were bad. So I turned off every breaker on that side of the breaker box and found that those are the plug ins that show bad on the tester. Now to tear into the breaker box and see what the problem is. Is it possible that it is a bad breaker?
 

Reach4

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I have used a plug in tester that shows if you have an open ground or neutral or whatever may be the problem. I noticed that about half of the receptacles were bad. So I turned off every breaker on that side of the breaker box and found that those are the plug ins that show bad on the tester.
Calling an electrician will probably save you in the long run in appliances that you are not frying. If you troubleshoot it yourself, you may well need an electrician to make the repair anyway.

But if you want to troubleshoot yourself, get a voltmeter and set it to a 250 VAC or more scale. When you get the cover open, post a picture of the inside of the breaker panel-- at least where the big wires come in, and a couple rows of breakers.

Is it possible that it is a bad breaker?
No, a bad breaker cannot cause this problem.
 

Travis Hall

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Calling an electrician will probably save you in the long run in appliances that you are not frying. If you troubleshoot it yourself, you may well need an electrician to make the repair anyway.

But if you want to troubleshoot yourself, get a voltmeter and set it to a 250 VAC or more scale. When you get the cover open, post a picture of the inside of the breaker panel-- at least where the big wires come in, and a couple rows of breakers.

No, a bad breaker cannot cause this problem.
I have done a lot of electrical work in my time. I am confident that I can fix it when I see what the problem is. I will get a pic. Everything looked ok. But I will go see if I can get a pic.
 

Reach4

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have done a lot of electrical work in my time. I am confident that I can fix it when I see what the problem is. I will get a pic. Everything looked ok. But I will go see if I can get a pic.
Did the electric company guy open your breaker box and do measurements inside?

Looking at this example panel, I would like to know the voltage A-D, B-D, A-B, D-C, and B-C.... I have a little redundancy there, but that is not bad.

Normal would approximately be 120, 120, 240, 0, and 120 respectively.

img_1.jpg
 

Jadnashua

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If the connection at 'C' is loose or corroded, you'll fry some electronics. If that is your main panel, C should be connected (bonded) to the ground wire as well. If it's a subpanel, then C and ground should be isolated. Without a solid neutral bus, all sorts of weird things will happen, especially whenever any 240vac appliance is on. This can get very expensive quickly if it is not resolved.
 

Travis Hall

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If the connection at 'C' is loose or corroded, you'll fry some electronics. If that is your main panel, C should be connected (bonded) to the ground wire as well. If it's a subpanel, then C and ground should be isolated. Without a solid neutral bus, all sorts of weird things will happen, especially whenever any 240vac appliance is on. This can get very expensive quickly if it is not resolved.
I have tried to post a pic. But can't get it to post. I'll keep trying. This is a mobile home. So I'm assuming that this being the panel in the house makes it a subpanel. I'll get those measurements asap and post them here. Thank you.
 

Reach4

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I have tried to post a pic. But can't get it to post. I'll keep trying. This is a mobile home. So I'm assuming that this being the panel in the house makes it a subpanel. I'll get those measurements asap and post them here. Thank you.
The maximum you can upload to the site is 800 pixels and 200 Kbytes. Get a photo tuning program or you can put the bigger picture on a different site, and put the link here.

Being in a mobile home does not make it a subpanel if the power is coming in right from the power company meter. The difference is whether the neutral bus (for white wires) and the protective ground bus (for green or bare wires) is tied together in the panel, as it is for a main panel.
 

Reach4

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I've found a problem. B-D is 250v
Yep. That is a problem. You need an electrician I think. Confirm B-C is also 250, and that means that the problem is before those terminals. Repairing problem probably involves pulling the meter. I presume the electric company people did not measure inside of your breaker panel. I wonder if they pulled the meter.

Get you homeowner's insurance company involved after the electrician fixes it -- not for the repair cost, but for the fried devices. You can ask.
 

Travis Hall

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Yep. That is a problem. You need an electrician I think. Confirm B-C is also 250, and that means that the problem is before those terminals. Repairing problem probably involves pulling the meter. I presume the electric company people did not measure inside of your breaker panel. I wonder if they pulled the meter.

Get you homeowner's insurance company involved after the electrician fixes it -- not for the repair cost, but for the fried devices. You can ask.
No they did not check inside. And the power actually comes into a disconnect panel on the pole outside, which I have turned off. But B-C it's only 125 as it should be. That particular bar is 125 all the way down until I get to the bridge that runs over to the other bar. Then it jumps to 250. It's that just a bad connection?
 

Travis Hall

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I have found that it is a loose ground on the "bridge" between neutrals. I am sanding it down now and going to see if I can get a better connection.
 

Cacher_Chick

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I have found that it is a loose ground on the "bridge" between neutrals. I am sanding it down now and going to see if I can get a better connection.

It might be that the connection between the neutral bars is bad. You would not be having the symptoms you listed because of a loose ground.
 
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