Still unable to identify this bath tub stem

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Nicholas440

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I have searched and searched and I am still unable to find this stem from my bath tub fixture. There is a stamping on the stem just above where the splines are and with a magnifying glass it looks to me like it reads, " 8 WOLVERINE " .

I showed it to a plumber who came out to replace my hot water heater and he said that he had never seen one before. He looked at it and said that the thin brass part that looks like an ear where the washer sits, looks as if it probably had 2 "ears" one on each side which holds the washer from sliding to the side. As far as I know it has been working fine for years with only the one brass ear on it. I had it all apart about 6 months ago or so, and the brass ear was the same as it is now. I'm going to put a new washer on it, but if possible I would like to find replacement stems for the bath tub. There is no name on the fixture whatever. There is no name anywhere on the fixture.

Does anyone have any idea what manufacturer made this stem? I've seen a few that look similar but nothing that matches it. The fixture on the bath tub probably was made in the 1950's.

Here are a few pictures of this stem. Any help will be appreciated. Thank you..

stem bath 1.jpgstem bath 2.jpg
 

hj

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It is a Wolverine Brass faucet stem. I do not have their part number but the Plumbmaster (1-800-523-5130) is 17064, "1040 stem', seat is 30030 "31 bibb seat". The interesting thing is that if your stem picture was not reversed, you stem is a left hand thread, usually used with lever handles, but they only list a right hand one for both hot and cold, usually for round or cross handles. If your "plumber" THINKS the the stem had "two ears to hold the washer" he is NOT a very experienced, or competent, plumber. It has a circular recess that the washer fit into. IF you cannot find a new stem break off the rest of it and file the end smooth. Then go to a good hardware store and get a replacement washer retainer, which is a cup with a flat side to go against the end of the stem that you smoothed off, and a washer to fit inside it. You may need a longer screw to hold it together. They do not give the diameter and thread pitch for the seat and my kit is out in the truck, so if you need it, write back and i will look it up.
 
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Asktom

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The Barry Walter part numbers are 410101 (hot) & 410102 (cold) unless the broach only has 12 splines in which case it is 410151 (hot) and 410152 (cold). Barry Walter is a manufacturer and will not sell you directly but you should be able to find it using those numbers. Thye Kissler number is 22-5095.

Or, you could break off the rest of the retainer and get a replacement retainer cup to hold the washer. When they are broken up like that it usually means the seat is shot and needs to be changed or the same thing will happen again.
 

Nicholas440

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Thank you guys for all the information on this Wolverine stem. I can now go about fixing it , and I 'll have to count the splines I'm thinking it's more than 12, I counted them about 6 months ago or so when I turned the original washer upside down for a fast and easy fix and it held up until the washer split in half it cracked down the center from old age I suppose. But my local hardare guy said they do have washers I just need to bring the stem in and match it up to a washer. I"ll ask if they carry those washer retainers with the rim to keep it seated properly. I hope the faucet seat is not in bad shape, I don't know how to change the seat if it's bad, I thought I might be able to get by with a new washer for a while if I'm easy on the faucets and handles. But I appreciate the part numbers and phone numbers, you guys are the best, and I really do want to thank everyone who even read this thread . I'll keep you all posted on the progress, I may not be able to get anything done for it for a few days due to the work schedule. The good part if any is i can use the bath tub, I just open the hot valve and let it fill the tub when I need to, it's a pain but I can use the bath tub until I get the parts.

The strange part of it all is the faucet itself did not drip or anything, I was filling the tub one evening and went to shut the water off and the hot side would not turn off, so I knew the washer was broken, and I took the hot side out and discovered the broken washer and here we are...

Thanks again, I'll get started asap...
 

Nicholas440

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Well, I've tried to get a new stem to replace this old one, and I think I have made over 20 phone calls trying to locate it. I talked to Kessler, and they said they make the stems but I'd have to buy one from a supply company, they don't sell them, but they told me to go to faucetshop.com and I could get one there. Well, faucetshop.com domain page is up for sale, so no help there. Kessler then gave me several phone numbers of plumbing places that should carry it, and I found a complete stem with the brass packing nut and washer, but it was a 6 inch stem and mine is a 5 inch. The Barry Walter place was no help either, I suppose if you're not a licensed plumber they don't even want to bother with you, and they have a $50 minimum and conditions on top of that, so I told them not to bother I'll find one somewhere.

I contacted Wolvervine Brass company and the guy there said to just send him a picture with a ruler on it for the scale, and he would get in touch with me on a new one if they have any in stock. I sent Wolverine 3 good photos of it, so I hope they have one at a reasonable price. The one I found that was to long was $44.65 which I thought was good because it came with washer, packing nut, and the stem but a 6 inch stem wont do the job , so I went back on a hunt for a stem. If I can't locate one, I'll just file off the brass tip and see if I can find a washer retainer, and put a new washer on it and be done with it. Ace Hardware where I live doesn't have any of those brass retainers, so I may end up just putting a washer on it and see how it holds up.

Thank you all for the help and advice, I am hoping to locate a stem for the tub soon, I'm sure someone out there must sell them, and maybe I'll get lucky and find one at a good price. Thanks again... Just thought I'd post an update on the progress. And for the comment about the guy who looked at my stem the day I had my new hot water heater put in, you're right, this plumber was only about 25 years old, and had never seen a stem like it and didn't even know what brand it was, he's only been plumbing with this company for about 5 years, so he hasn't worked on many faucets I'd imagine but the work he did on my new hot water heater was good, it's a professional looking job, he was neat, cleaned up the area after he put in the hot water tank, which is a 40 gallon natural gas tank and it works as it should for a new tank, but as far as faucet fixtures goes, this youngster had no clue but I'm sure in the years to follow if he gets to work on enough fixtures he will get familiar with some of the old fashioned parts.

I really appreciate this forum and all the advice from you veteran seasoned plumbers who've probably seen just about every faucet thats been manufactured and it's parts. Thanks again,

Nick,
 

Nicholas440

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UPDATE:

I just wanted to post an update to thank you for your help and replies. I located 2 Wolverine stems at the Chicago Faucet Shoppe in Chicago, and ordered a hot and cold stem, so I can put them into the tub fixture in the next few days. I didn't get any seats as yet, I wanted to see if these stems will be ok, I would hate to have to wrestle with with pulling the seats out, I know they are just brass with a hex or square hole and the seat tool can get them out but being a novice as I am, old faucets are not comfortable for me because if I do break something or strip some threads I'm up the creek. I rebuilt my Moen kitchen faucet complete, Moen sent me the " O" rings, retainer nut, cartrdidge, etc , and I fixed it up and I was proud of my accomplishment. I'm not a plumber but when I was growing up my dad showed me how to sweat pipes and change washers, etc. My dad was really good at working with pipes, water, and gas and I learned a lot from him as I was growing up. I can do a lot of around the house faucet repair and toilet fixups, too, I put in all new feed lines, changed all the feed valves to the toilet, sinks, etc, and I actually had fun doing it, but I'm a novice and you guys are the experts with the books and you do it for a living, I just try to do it to save a few dollars if I can.

Thanks for the help and I'll keep you updated as to how the repair of the old time Wolverine faucet goes. Hopefully it will be good as new and if I have to I'll tackle the seats also if I need them.

My next big adventure will be to tackle the stink (vent) pipe on my roof. I have a low hip roof ranch and every so often if I flush the toilet the kitchen sink starts coughing and gasping for air , it gurgles and carries on very loud so I was told I'll need to put a snake into the vent pipe and yank out any crap (pardon the pun) thats in there. I have a huge maple tree in back and the leaves always end up on my roof and in my gutters, so I think its time to clean out that vent pipe and put a screen on it, but that will a spring time job when it's a nice day, I wont be doing it in the winter thats for sure.

Thanks again, next update coming soon !

Nick,
 

Nicholas440

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Hi everyone,

I got the Wolverine Brass stems, and put them in, they fit perfectly and work. I'm thinking I should have put in new seats since the fixture is from back in the 50's and I assume probably never had new seats in it. I looked up that 30030 bibb seat part, and want to know are these the brass seats I need? If so, which seat tool do you recommend I get to remove them because my guess is, the seats are going to be VERY TIGHT and being brass I'm afraid to strip the hole in the center so I want to do it right.

Here is a link to the seats I found. Are these the ones I need to put in? ( Danco #31 Faucet Bibb Seat 30030 for Wolverine ) .... They look like they have square hole in the center and it says it's a 1/2" 24T whatever that means, I assume it's the thread or thread pitch.

[h=1]Danco #31 Faucet Bibb Seat 30030 for Wolverine[/h]
I probably wont use the seat again for a long time but always nice to have the tool . All my other faucets are Moen's with cartridge so i dont know if those have seats or not, remember I'm a novice and I dont know a lot about these parts.

Thank you for any help you can offer. Will the seats come out fairly easy without a lot of prying?

Nick,
 
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Nicholas440

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Hello again,

I got the faucet seats and bought the seat removal tool, I bought the one that is a kit with 3 long rods with different sizes and shapes on each end and it comes with a small ratchet tool to get a good grip on the removal rod.

Problem is, I took the stem out and made sure I had the right seat removal rod, I inserted into the new seat to make sure it gets good grip and matches the hex hole.

Well, I insert the tool into the old seat but something tells me that probably many years ago someone already tried to remove the seat of over time the water minerals pitted the hex hole because my tool would not get a solid grip on the hex to unscrew it. It slipped one time and I knew right then that it was not going to work so rather than try to unscrew it I put it all back together I did not want to strip out the hex hole any more than it already was.


So now I have a choice, the faucet is not leaking, nor is it dripping however when I felt the brass seat thats in there it feels like it is a little pitted or rough and I know over time that washer isnt going to hold up. I'm sure it may last several months if I'm easy on turning it off and on but I'd like to get that old seat out and put the new ones in and know that the job is done right, and it should last for years and years because it would be a complete rebuild with new seats , stems, and washers.

Is there any kind of a tool that will get a grip on that old seat hex hold and allow me to get it out such as the tool I used to use years ago on my car when I broke a bolt. It's an " easy out " tool, and back then I had to drill a hole in the bolt and use the easy out tool to get it out. I'm just wondering how you guys would pull that old seat out when the tool wont get it. The hex is kind of not a full hex anymore nor is it a square. So I'm a little frustrated because I worked so hard in getting new stems which were almost impossible to find, but thanks to you guys I was able to locate stems and put them in.

Now I would appreciate any help on how to remove these stems. I don't want to think that I would need a plumber to come out with a special tool because it's just a brass seat with threads that has to come out.

Thank you all in advance I am probably being a pain in your side with all my questions, but I appreciate any help I can get.

Nick
 

Dj2

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Replacing the washers but not replacing the seats in your shower faucet, is like changing the oil in your car, but not the oil filter.

Now you can't get the seats out, You have spent 2 weeks or more on this, dozens of calls, who knows how much money, gas, patience, sweat, frustration and so on...all on a 65 year old faucet?

Here is one piece of advice from me: Time to replace the entire thing, body and all. Why? fixing the old will buy you little time at best, and already costing you more. DIY is fine, up to a limit.

Good luck.
 

Reach4

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Another thing to try is a proper allen wrench of the correct size rather than a cast seat wrench.

dj2's idea is probably best, but you can try looking up "seat grinder" if you have an attachment to that faucet.
 
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Asktom

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An ez-out can stretch the soft brass seat and body so that after it comes out nothing will fit back in. It is better to use a tapered seat wrench and bang it in so it bites the seat, making sure it isn't hitting the back of the faucet body - sometimes they need to be cut or ground shorter

pp-faucet-seat.jpg
 
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Nicholas440

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Replacing the washers but not replacing the seats in your shower faucet, is like changing the oil in your car, but not the oil filter.

Now you can't get the seats out, You have spent 2 weeks or more on this, dozens of calls, who knows how much money, gas, patience, sweat, frustration and so on...all on a 65 year old faucet?

Here is one piece of advice from me: Time to replace the entire thing, body and all. Why? fixing the old will buy you little time at best, and already costing you more. DIY is fine, up to a limit.

Good luck.

Thank you, I appreciate your advice but this is a bath tub fixture and not a car, and even if it were a car like the 1956 Ford Crown Victoria that resides in my garage, and has had countless hours of frustration, dozens of phone calls, and a lot of hard work in getting parts that you can't readily find, anymore, I didn't feel the Crown Victoria should just be replaced all because one little part was keeping it from functioning properly. It looks and runs like new thanks to a DIY with persistence like me.

My Wolverine fixture is now working as new, with a little help from a retired plumber who spent over 50 years working in the business and restoring antique fixtures that most plumbers such as yourself would have tossed to the trash and put in a brand new one, which is no where near the quality material that was used 65 years ago in those old time fixtures. The Wolverine I have looks like the day it was installed, and works flawlessly with NEW seats in it. All it needed was the right TOOL to extract the old seats which took all of about 30 seconds, and I did not have to spend $1,000 on having the old fixture cut out and a new one sweated in.

Sometimes you just have to have a little more determination when you face a problem. If the fixture had been all corroded, and coming apart, I probably would have had it replaced but this one was in pristine shape other than it was leaking and needed new washers and seats. I look for this Wolverine to work for another 65 years with the proper care it deserves. I'm 72 years old, and I have replaced every fixture, feed line, and shut off valve in this house, and I know this Wolverine will be working long after I'm gone.

Thank you for the help, especially to those who took the time to put in part numbers and offer me the right way to repair it. I truly appreciate the advice and the assistance from this forum.
 

Cwhyu2

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Thank you, Nicholas. for that post, did faucet repairs for many years and could repair a lot of the older faucets easier and have them last a long time.
 

Asktom

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There are repair plumbers and there are replace plumbers - depending on the situation one will make more sense than the other. Best is a plumber who does both and has reasonable sense. The problem with repairing is that you can spend a lot of time (= money) chasing parts rather than just, "gettin' 'er done". It also takes a different skill set and, often, different tools than the "change it out school" requires. If your old plumbing is well made of good material and in acceptable ahape it is probably be better than what you would replace it with. Some replacement plumbers just want to get in, make it work, get paid and move on to the next job, and, if you need to fix the wall, then, you fix the wall - that isn't plumbing. If the old stuff is just flat shot or is cheap garbage, then it just needs to go no matter who fixes the wall. Sometimes repair is better, sometimes replace.

Glad you got your faucet fixed, you did great battle.
 

William S.

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An ez-out can stretch the soft brass seat and body so that after it comes out nothing will fit back in. It is better to use a tapered seat wrench and bang it in

Old-thread revival, I know, but I was searching the archive here for tips on using an EZ out / extractor for faucet seat removal. The above line got me to thinking . . . I have used an EZ out (like in the picture below) to remove sink faucet seats. I have a shower body where I may have to use one. Asktom's comment indicates that EZ out use can widen or distort the hole where the seat screws in. I'm curious if others have encountered this.

If anything, it vindicates Terry's oft-stated advice to use dope on seat threads.
 

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