Starting up a 25 year old "virgin" 2'' cased well

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Tony Y.

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My family has an old cottage on a lake in Michigan at which a "new" 2'' steel cased well was dug approximately 25 years ago. 175' well depth with 25' static water level. It was never plumbed and no pump was ever installed (the cottage is owned jointly by 11 siblings, need I say more). I'm a third generation member interested in getting the well water into the cabin. It's used only in summer so I'm not interested in pitless adapter installation etc... I can do most residential plumbing projects but I know next to nothing about pump installation. I do know that this will require a deep well jet pump and "packer" system installation (drop pipe inserted down the 2'' casing - drive water/ suction line) Some novice questions for anyone interested in answering:

I'm assuming galvanized pipe for the drop pipe but what size???? 1" or 1-1/4'' - I've read arguements for both sizes

I have no idea what the "pumping level" actually is, the well has never been tested so what's the best guess as to what depth the jet assembly should be installed???? 35' or 45' or should I install what I've heard of as a 30' tail pipe/foot valve, below the 35' jet assembly level, assuming 10' below the static water line is a good starting point for the jet assembly??? (I plan on using a Flint & Walling 1 hp jet pump matched with a decent bladder tank - too much/too little hp???) It's a cabin so the GPM requirements would be very low; a toilet, 2 sinks... a shower would be luxurious.

My dad (70 years+) and I will be attempting this project so all that steel pipe seems a bit heavy. Plenty of trees in the area so should I plan on rigging up some kind of pulley/stop system to install the 35'+ 30' pipe or more... in 10' sections???

The top of the well casing is inches below ground level with a female/female threaded coupling at the very top with a male cap as a well cap. Should I just remove the coupling/cap and hacksaw the threads off of the top most portion of the 2'' well casing to fit the drop pipe adapter/seal on the well or am I missing something here???
 

Akpsdvan

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If the 2" is inside D.. then you are going to have to need to stay with 2 pipe runs that stays within the inside 2 D of the casing.

You are right about the deep well two line , once the pump is primed it will push some of the water down to push or pull the water out of the well.

Then there is the cross over part that has to be used at the bottum of the run for this to work, will it fit in the 2" ID casing?

Just a thought... you might check to see what a local driller woud charge to do a 4" or 6" cased well right next the one that you have.

Could be about the same cost when put next to time and parts and hassel of getting what is there up and running..

Friction loss with sch 40 steel pipe say 5gpm 3/4ID is 6.3 per 100 feet
Friction loss with sch 40 pvc pipe same 5gpm 3/4ID is 5.7 per 100 feet

I know it does not sound like much , but it all starts adding up , if you are down 175 feet, and then say 100 feet to the cabin and say that cabin is 50 feet higher than the well head..

Just some thoughts that I have on what you are doing.
 

Tony Y.

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Thanks for the reply. I understand the 2 drop pipe system but I think the situation I have is a 2'' ID cased well which I "think" only allows for a single drop pipe. Meaning, the 2'' (hopefully fully sealed) cased well is itself the drive pipe with the single drop pipe being the return flow/discharge pipe (from what I've read, this is all theory to me, no experience).
My house used to have this set up. It requires an adapter on the pump or well head to make the well casing act as a drive pipe. With this cabin, the pump would sit right on top of the well head surrounded by a pump house (still in design phase). The jet/packer assembly would go in the well but how far down is my biggest mystery at this point particularly since I don't know the "pumping level" of the well.
Do I set the Jet/foot assembly all the way down near the bottom of the well - 175' or somewhere below the static water level - 25'???? I've read in different forums to put the Jet/foot assembly 10' below the static water level and use a 30' tail pipe below that to ensure not to pump the well dry. All acedemic at this point. Any ideas?????
 

Akpsdvan

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Take a look at this site.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/content/imageview.cfm?img=http%3A//media.popularmechanics.com/images/lg_3251_2_lg.gif&caption=

I have no idea about using the well casing its self as part of the return or supply as shown in the photo..

I pick up information from hanging out with the well drillers in the area that I live and work... so I can only lay out some ideas based on what I have learned from them.

There most likely will be some others post in this thread with either ideas or ways of getting done what you are working on.
 

Texas Wellman

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Hi Tony. I just wanted to mention a couple of things for you to consider.

Take the cap off of the well and drop a weight attached to a line into the well. Listen for it to hit water. Mark the water level and pull the weight out. If the water level is above the 20' mark, you may be able to use a shallow well jet pump. This will make the project much easier. If the water level is between 20-25 feet, you might still be able to use a shallow well jet pump. A shallow well jet pump uses a jet at the top of the well or built into the pump itself. This will allow you to put a short suction section in the well and avoid using heavy galvanized pipe. If the water level is deeper than about 25' then you will need to use a deep well jet pump. I know you stated that the level was 20' but it may have changed since the well was drilled.

Before starting any major work, you really need to check whether the well can produce water or not. A well that has been sitting for 25+ years will have a lot or rust and scale. Also there may be a hole in the galvanized pipe. In which case the well may not be salvageable. If you can borrow an air compressor drop a line in the well, get it as far as you can go down below the water level. I usually put a T on top with the hose going in the top of the T (stuff with a rag) and an outlet pipe pointing away. You don't have to do this but it makes it easier to see how much the well is producing and is less messy. A small gasoline or large electric compressor will do the trick or you can rent one. I have used a 5 HP gasoline in the past and it did OK for what you need to find out.

Put the air line in the well and start the compressor. Whatever water is being displaced by the air will blow out of the top of the well. As the water is displaced, more water will enter the screen to replace that water. You are "surging" the well. This will also get out any rust/scale in the line and also the stagnant water. You will need about 10-12 gallons per minute minimum to make a feasible well. If you cannot get at least this amount then consider your screen plugged from minerals etc. You can do some things to clear it but you will need the right materials (i.e. acid pellets specially designed for wells).

It is important to get all the rust/scale out of the casing because the jet can easily be plugged by a piece of rust as small as a match-head. A plugged jet will quickly stop your pump from making any pressure.

You should be able to get a good stream of clear, sand and silt free water. If you are getting sand/silt, you may have a hole in your casing and need a new well.

Should your well make good water you should add some disinfectant to kill any bacteria contamination etc. before using the water. The type and amount depends, we'll get to that later.
 
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Texas Wellman

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Ok, once you've established whether or not your well makes water you'll need to set up your pump.

A 2" casing when used with a deep well jet pump needs some special considerations. First, you need to add a small section of pipe to the top of the well. You will not be able to seal the top where the threads are with a standard 2" casing adapter. You need to bring the well up to a level you can work at, and you also need to know what the law requires as far as height. Find out what the local laws are there and cut an approptiate section of 2" pipe. Thread only one end. The other end needs to be smooth and clean of burs etc. Screw this on to the pipe to raise the level of the well up. This will allow you to use a well-mounted deep well jet pump. Since you are in Michigan I know you plan to put a pump house over the well/pump/tank for freeze protection. Before you do anything else the well needs to be sleeved. I like to use 4" sch 80 PVC, but you can use cast-iron or galvanized. Cut a piece that will go down in the ground around the slab but leave a few inches under the top of the casing for access to the well head. Your state may have laws that dictate how deep the sleeve needs to go etc as we do here but I am unsure for Michigan. Also the sleeve will protect the steel well casing from concrete if you pour a slab around it. Concrete will eat through steel if unprotected.
 

Texas Wellman

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Another consideration to consider is what drop pipe you can use. Normally with a steel 2" well 1-1/4" galvanized pipe is the standard. However, regular 1-1/4" collars are too tight to allow sufficient water to flow around them to operate the jet. You will need special "turned" 1-1/4 collars. You can also use regular 1" galvanized pipe with regular collars, but the standard jets and well heads are both 1-1/4" threads. You will need a "turned" adapter to go from 1" galvanized to 1-1/4" jet and well head threads. The jet has male threads, the well head uses female threads.

You can use PVC if you like but I would not use PVC in a galvanized well. If you do use PVC make sure that you use 1" pvc with Special Reducing Adapters. The SRA's adapt the 1" PVC to 1-1/4" threads to use with the jet/well head. You will need a female SRA and a male SRA. PVC is o.k. to use in a PVC well but sometimes the jets etc. can hang up in a steel well and you need the steel pipe to pull on. Do not use 1-1/4' PVC because you will need to use thin collars and on PVC these are just too weak and are often the point of breaks etc.

I have not used sch 80 PVC for an application like this but it might be worth checking into. sch 80 PVC has the same OD as regular PVC but the interior is a little smaller. I have no idea what effect this would have on pump performance but for a cabin you might be OK, especially when doing it yourself. The sch 80 collars should pass through the casing ok or the bell ends if gluing.

I know you stated that you are going to use a Flint & Walling but I really don't have any experience with those pumps. I really like either a Goulds SJ series or a Sta Rite MS series. Both of these pumps can sit right on top of the casing, which when using 2" steel makes a really good mount. A horizontal mounted pump is OK too but you will have to make a separate mount for the pump and pipe it up to the well head. A direct mounted pump saves you the trouble of having to make a mount and then connect two pipes to the well head.

For a 2" well with a water level between 20-70 feet I would use a Goulds SJ-10 Deep well jet pump. That is a 2-stage 1 HP pump that is vertically mounted on top of the well casing. You will also need an AWD2 casing adapter which seals the casing and allows the drive pipe to be the annular space between the casing and drop pipe. You will also need a 2" jet with leathers (packers), a nozzle and venturi/diffuster. You will also need either a 1" footvalve or 1-1/4 footvalve depending upon how the jet is threaded. Most are threaded for 1". The jet can either be cast-iron or brass. Cast iron is OK in a steel well but in a pvc well always use brass. I don't remember off hand the number for a goulds 2" packer jet but it uses a regular 1" footvalve. Use a good quality brass footvalve, I like the flowmatic brand but Simmons is OK.
 
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Texas Wellman

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Once you have decided which pipe to use gather the materials.


If using galvanized pipe I would install the pipe in 10' sections. Be very careful at this stage. You could easily lose your fingers or worse or you can drop the pipe in the well which could cause more expense. Galvanized pipe is heavy and will require at least two people. If you decide to go with 1" pvc you can glue the pipe together on the ground using good quality glue and primer. You can then make an arch with the pipe and feed it into the well in one piece with the jet on bottom and SRA on top.

Galvanized pipe comes in 21' sections. Have them cut in two pieces with threads and get extra turned collars. Get a good quality pipe vise and two good quality pipe wrenches. For a well like yours I would try to set the jet about 40-60'. Assemble the jet and make sure the nozzle and venturi are correctly installed. Install the footvalve directly under the jet. Make sure the leathers are good and facing the right way. Make sure to use a good quality sealant like Rectorseal or teflon tape. Be careful with teflon not to leave any excess which could clog the jet. Install the jet using turned collars or adapters to the pipe. Stand the pipe up, and with two people insert the pipe into the well. With two people have one person lower the pipe with one wrench while the other person is moving their wrench up. This way you can "walk" the pipe down. One person will always be holding the pipe while the other one is moving their wrench up. As the person who is moving theirs up a few feet at a time gets a "bite" the person on the bottom can release their wrench. This way you can install the pipe a few feet at a time. Once you reach the coupling secure the vise in place a few inches below. After you get the last piece in clamp the pipe again using the vise and install the well head. Make sure you loosen the bolts on the bottom of the well head in order to be able to seat it on the casing correctly. There is a rubber gasket/collar under the well head and the gasket needs to completely seat on the 2" pipe. While one person holds the pipe in place, remove the vise. It can be tricky to get the well head down correctly but you should be able to get a large wrench on the well head and wiggle it down.

Once you have the well head securely in place prime the well. Both sides of the well head need to be liquid full (suction and drive side). Once the drop pipe is liquid full install the gasket and bolt on the pump. Get the pump at the direction you want and tighten the well head bolts. The pump and wellhead can be rotated 360 before these are tightened. Excessive rotation may damage the leathers on the jet so don't get too carried away. Now prime the pump and screw on the gauge. Make sure to use teflon or pipe dope to seal all connections. A little bit of anti-seize on the bolts etc. won't hurt either.

Now you can add the tank and wire the pump up. I like to use 220V but you can use 110V on most 1-HP motors by changing a few wires. Make sure the air pressure in the tank is at 28 psi for a bladder tank with 30/50 cut on/off. Connect all the plumbing and fire the pump up. With a goulds SJ series pump the regulator needs to be adjusted to about 45 psig. A Sta-Rite needs to be about 60 psi. I do not know about the F&W, you may need to experiment. The regulator keeps the jet pressure at the right amount. To adjust the regular there is a screw on the regulator you can screw in or out while the pump is running. While the pump is running you will be reading jet pressure, not tank pressure.
 
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Texas Wellman

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I hope this has helped you. I'm sure there is something I have missed or forgotten so if you have any more questions please ask. My knowledge and experiences are my own and others may have other opinions. I would strongly encourage you to get at least the jet and drop-line professionally installed due to the weight and difficulty of installed steel line. It probably isn't as expensive as you think and a local service guy knows all the codes and requirements.

Good luck.
 
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