Starting to replace the water main...

[shawnharper]

A thread I started earlier in the week has convinced me that I'm better off just replacing the water main (https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17015).

I'm now here to get any lessons learned, as I plan to start tomorrow morning.

My background. General DIYer, who's helped out in every part of this large
remodel. I've sweated ~25 or so joints, from 1/2" up to 1". "Only" 2 leaks, caught immediately.

The inspector recommended I used PVC. We're in a warm climate, so freezing isn't an issue.

The current line is copper, I think! Size, not sure, but it's gotta be either 2/4" or 1". I'll find out tomorrow once I start excavating (the meter is buried under ~30" or so of landscape feature - a big mound).

I've heard that there needs to be *** inches of Cu pipe on either side of the PVC, something to do with proper grounding.

That's the big question mark I've had. The inspector requires 1-1/4" pipe. I'm going to use 1-1/2" PVC, in 20' bell end sections (3 total).

The other nagging question - my water meter is only 3/4". Why would I need to go up to 1-1/4" pipe if the 3/4" is limiting it (and it's 3/4" from the mai******-main to the meter as well, for some *** number of feet)?

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

something is wrong here

Why would your inspector maek you run in a 1 1/4 line to your home????

That is large enough to do a 10 stroy building......

you ought to reserch this out a little further....

running in an 1 1/2 pvc pipe seems like a lot if overkill
especially when the meter is only set up for 3/4


Ask the inspector what would be wrong with just a
roll of 3/4 copper pipe ....being your water main and all the
digging involved it would seem it would be money well spent to do it that way...


I would question that inspector a little futher to be sure you understood him corectly

go toa local plumbing supply house and ask them what is ok to run before you get yourself in a mess

 

[Sponsor]

 

[shawnharper]

If you see the other thread I linked to, the guys here are in general agreement that the pipe needs to be changed (from 1" to 1'1/4"). I'm going to 1-1/2" because the cost delta is essentially nil, and should help out with a reduction in losses.

 

[Jadnashua]

I would much rather use roll stuff so you won't have any joints except at the ends. I know CPVC is okay for potable water, not sure about PVC.

 

[Terry]

The 1-1/2" PVC should be fine.
Don't worry about Master Plumber Marks comments.

His roll of 3/4" copper to a home as big as yours wouldn't pass pass any inspections around here.
Unless you are best buddies with the inspector, it will have to be code.
Of course, if the inspector is your best buddy, he would make you plumb it to code.

PVC male adapters can be used for connections to other pipes.
A female threaded fitting is not allowed in plastic.

Don't forget the purple primer before you apply the glue.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

you are crazy ---but whatever floats your boat..

If you see the other thread I linked to, the guys here are in general agreement that the pipe needs to be changed (from 1" to 1'1/4"). I'm going to 1-1/2" because the cost delta is essentially nil, and should help out with a reduction in losses.

I went and read your other thread -

have you factored in how that restriction through the 3/4
water meter is going to affect the overall "delta - phi " here????

could that inspector be blowing smoke up your a// here????


you will get no more water into your home than what that 3/4 meter will allow to flow through it

you can put in whatever size water line you wish..

it really wont matter if you are only going 30 feet.....

I would guess that you have about 80psi in the area...

again ---- the water company will not give you a bigger meter for a home service line so the flow rate will stay the same, no matter how much you increase the volume of the pipe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a three bathroom house with a whirlpool in one bath. A laundry and a laundry tub, extra kitchen sink, and its all running fine on a 3/4 black crestline poly line that goes appprox 200 feet from the meter to
my basement into the prv valve then into the water softener...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you absolutely must why not

run a 1 1/4 crestline black pipe if you so wish in one roll
and you will save yourself a lot of greif



but what ever you put in it will work fine

it simply seems to be a lot of overkill

have a great weekend....

 

[Terry]

Mark,
It's about friction loss.

Have you ever sucked a milk shake through a tiny straw?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

yes many times.....

Terry ... friction loss ok....I guess

I did not read anything about his incomming pressure
in the neighborhood ...does that not count for something??
in 30 feet or the 3/4 meter??

whatever--- just pretend like I was not here....

no doubt it will work

-------------------------------------------------------------


one thing for sure

you could realy suck up a lot of milk
shake ---real fast--- with a 1 1/2 inch straw....

if that is what you are into...LOL

major brain freeze

 

[Terry]

That's why I order my Margarita's on the rocks.
I can't take brain freeze.

As I recall, his water service is long enough that the chart puts him into the 1-1/4" range.
He has a 1" line now that works fine, but with the added fixtures, it just pushes him over.

A note on friction.
When I was hooking up houses on small lots with 1" poly, the water would shoot out like a fire hose on the unconnected end.
I then replaced my water service to my home, this was in 83, 350 feet of 1" poly, and the water came out the end, but not that well.
That was my first experience with friction loss.
If I had known how much volume I was going to lose, I would have run a bigger line.
That's why, when I replaced my mothers line, I bumped it considerably.
And yes, it made a big difference. Her line was less than 300 feet, but even with the same water meter, it was a big difference.
Really what really made her spend the money, was trying to get an irrigation system to work off of the 3/4" line. We couldn't get the heads to fire off.
We finally put in a tee near the meter and brought two 1.5 line to the house. One for irrigation, the other for the home.
She has about 1 acre of property, and at 90, she's getting a bit old to drag hoses.

 

[shawnharper]

Terry -

Can you expand on the quote:

"A female threaded fitting is not allowed in plastic."

Are you saying that my PVC fittings can't have any female threads, or vice versa?

So, I can't use one of these?

Would this be what I use instead?

And I can use this?

Thanks - I probably would have used something wrong otherwise.

 

[Chris75]

Terry -

Can you expand on the quote:

"A female threaded fitting is not allowed in plastic."

Are you saying that my PVC fittings can't have any female threads, or vice versa?

So, I can't use one of these?

Would this be what I use instead?

And I can use this?

Thanks - I probably would have used something wrong otherwise.

I think your a little confused on male and female parts...

 

[Terry]

A female fitting can split.

As the tapered thread exerts pressure on the outer plastic fitting, it can cause it to stretch or crack over time.

The bottom picture is ok.

 

[WestcoastPlumber]

You can only thread pvc male into copper fip.

If you screw a metal fitting into a plastic fitting, like an pvc fip, you will surely split the fip, maybe not as soon as you do it, but shortly after

so remember, thread plastic into metal.

 

[WestcoastPlumber]

Your quick terry!! one minute, no response, by the time I was done, BAM!! it was there

 

[Wet_Boots]

Since the difference between a one-inch line and a inch-and-a-quarter line (with a 3/4" meter) is three fixture units, what happens if you swap out the 3/4 for a one-inch meter, and leave the one-inch supply line in place? How many fixture units does the increase give?

 

[TMB9862]

Since the difference between a one-inch line and a inch-and-a-quarter line (with a 3/4" meter) is three fixture units, what happens if you swap out the 3/4 for a one-inch meter, and leave the one-inch supply line in place? How many fixture units does the increase give?

Zero. And that's if you can get your hands on a 1in meter.

All the new large 5+ bathroom houses around here are getting 1in copper services. Then again the runs aren't very long. I know one place just got a 2in galvanized service replaced with 2" copper & poly but that service is literally a quarter mile long. I guess it's just another case codes varying with location.




I'm not sure how long my service is but it's 1in galvanized. I believe it's about 60ft but it could run under one road and be tapped in an older main in the middle of a second road. That would put it at 120ft. I have five full baths, two half baths, a laundry, a slop sink, and three kitchens. Their is a detached garage apartment behind the house. So that water comes in, runs through the house about 40ft, then runs in 1/2" K 40ft underground to the apartment. I have excellent pressure in the house and the apartment even with multiple fixtures running. Of course you can't run too much at the same time in the apartment though.

 

[hj]

pipe

you can put in whatever size water line you wish..

And the inspector can turn it down just as easily. A schedule 80 PVC threaded one end nipple into a bushing is a much stronger connection than a male adapter.

 

[shawnharper]

Can anyone comment on whether or not the smaller middle picture I showed above is OK? It's PVC with what looks like a brass threaded insert inside. I'd think that'd fix the splitting issues.

Re: the water meter. Our water company, if I wanted, would install the next size meter and replace the pipe to the street. Their next size from 3/4" is 1.5" for each, and only would cost ~$7-8000. Only. That's a lot of cabbage to have better pressure when washing your head (of lettuce)...

Other q's. I'm guessing I should avoid 90 degree turns (elbows) and instead use 2x 45's? Are elbows allowed in a pinch?

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[shawnharper]

And I'm guessing ball valve shutoffs at each end? (house and meter)

And that those should be brass, not PVC?

 

[TMB9862]

How many elbows do you need to use? Two 45s are better to use then two elbows although with 1-1/4 I don't think a couple elbows will seriously impede your volume.


What made you decide on PVC? If that's what your inspector told you to use then I'd use what I was told. Otherwise why not copper or poly? I like copper and one of the reasons is it's flexible so it doesn't require any fittings other than those for the meter, curb stop, and corp. I know a 60ft roll of 1-1/4 copper is probably $800 nowadays though. Is poly allowed where you are? It's pretty inexpensive and will bend almost as well as copper. It just won't hold the shape you bend it to so you would need to support the meter somehow.

You defiantly want a ball valve in the house, the less joints between the service coming in and the valve, the better. Typically you come in through the foundation, have an elbow so you're not sticking out into the room, a nipple or a piece (depending on the material), and then the valve. The meter setup usually has two valves built in, one on each side of the meter.