Starting fresh, in need of advice, water softener

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verbalkint99

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So, I spent a few weeks this summer researching my options for water treatment. I focused on getting just the right valve as one of the first things I read about is how they are the most important component. Once I picked out what I though was what I wanted I started into the overall system....thats when my head just about exploded. Everyone I talked to gave me a different design. Some said all I needed was X water softener, another said Y water softener and A iron filter, still another said to forget the softener and just get an iron filter and a "whole house filter" (the big blue canisters). Others mentioned combo units and chlorine injectors. I started looking for help here, but did not have all the info you guys (and gals) needed. So here are the specifics:

4 bedroom, 2.5 baths, water using appliances are the norm (washer, dishwasher, ice maker, water heater)
Two adults, two kids (one just arrived and the other is hypothetical at this time)
We are on a well that was dug last summer (I had the specifics as far as pump and depth, but I can not find it)
We are on a septic system so I need to stay away from too many chemical backwash treatments

Current problems include: slight scaling around faucets, strong sulfur odor from hot water ( anode rod, I know), but also a faint sulfur odor in the cold water, and rust staining in the sinks/toilet bowls/and toilet tanks (murky, cloudy appearance in the tanks)

I got the Kit60 water test kit that was suggested on here. Highlights of the results are:

Chloride - 43.2 mg/L
hardness - 280 mg/L or 16.4 gpg
PH - 7.9
Sulfate - 46 mg/L
Iron - 0.30 mg/L
Manganese - 0.019 mg/L
Sodium - 21.5 mg/L
Sulfur, total by ICP - 14.9 mg/L
Calcium - 73.5 mg/L

Do I need a softener and an iron filter, or just a softener? I have been offered combo units but have been told they dont last long.

Also, I read that drinking softened water is not good for you. So is a reverse osmosis system really needed or are there other options?

I know this is a lot to ask and a truly appreciate any assistance. I swear I read through many threads on here and other sites but it seems as though each one just made maters, and my understanding, worse...lol.
 

Reach4

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I think most tradeoffs have been discussed on your prior thread. S. This will try to add what may be an additonal perspective.

Maybe you find the sulfur smell more tolerable now or less tolerable now. But to remind you, a softener will not help the sulfur smell. Some smell comes in through your water as H2S (hydrogen sulfide) and some includes a reaction involving the anode in the hot water heater. Some plumbers remove the anode and replace it with a brass plug. That will shorten the life of the water heater. I have a powered anode, which protects the water heater while not helping that reaction. An iron+sulfur filter would remove the H2S coming in.

Let't consider the sodium added to the water by a softner on top of your you sodium that is already in your well water. One thing to consider is adding a tap for drinking water from after your iron+sulfur filter but before your softener. This is like free mineral water. Some run unsoftened water to the cold tap in the kitchen sink.

But drinking softened water is not bad either, but you are missing that nice calcium that is good to drink. And yes, you get a little more sodium. How much?

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/dwgb/documents/dwgb-2-12.pdf says for each 10 mg/L as CaCO3 Sodium removed, 4.6 mg/L of sodium is added. 2000 mg of sodium per day is a below average sodium intake. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...d-healthy-eating/in-depth/sodium/art-20045479 says "The average American gets about 3,400 mg of sodium a day" but doctors would like to see maybe half that.
http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/sodium-in-soft-water says
"Grains per gallon (GPG) of total hardness x 1.89 = mg. of sodium in an 8 oz glass of water." If you drink a quart of water per day, 4*16.4*1.89= 124 mg of sodium is added from the softener. Drink a gallon per day, multiply that by 4. Then that number is added to the 20.3 mg of sodium that is already in each quart.

It is also possible to use potassium instead of sodium salt. That can work, but it costs about 5 times as much, and is trickier in the face of temperature changes. Sodium salt is nice in that the dissolved amount varies very little with temperature. Not so with potassium salt. But potassium salt adds no sodium. It is probably cheaper to buy inexpensive bottled water to drink than to use potassium in your softener.

I ignored your small magnesium number in the math. If the softener is removing the iron, there would be a little more sodium from that, but that addition would also be small.
 
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verbalkint99

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OK Reach4, I went back over the other threads I started and reread the posts, especially yours. From what I understand you are talking about doing a backwash iron filter>4.5x20 BB inline filter>pressure gauge/bypass valve>water softener. Is this correct?

If so I have three questions:

Are either of these the style of iron filters you are talking about?
http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/genesis-highflow-backwashing-katalox-filter-1-cubic-foot.html
http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/the-eliminator-5600-sxt-1-5-cubic-foot-470.html

What filter would I need to use in the BB filter? Carbon or sediment?

And last, with cost being the main factor, would there be anything wrong with going with the iron filter first and reevaluating a need for a water softener in the future? I was told my hardness is not far off from that of the local municipal supply anyway, and I am not seeing any buildups in the appliances.

Another option that was offered up was a KDF filter/water softener combo unit, it seems that set up would be easier but I worry about longevity and the loss of the ability to use unsoftened water.

Thank you again for all the help, and I do apologize if I am being any bit annoying.
 

Reach4

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Mine is what they now call the Eliminator Plus. Where you show water pressure gauge, I actually have a boiler drain tap that I can screw a water pressure gauge to. It is there to make it handy to refill my solution tank every 5 weeks. I use a gallon of chlorine bleach and top up with water. If I were doing it again, I think I would have put a soft water tap for refilling the solution tank because I see a slight calcium deposit in the bottom of the solution tank. Not a big deal, but the soft water would have no calcium.

I also have a powered anode in the water heater, which I ordered before deciding to get the iron+sulfur filter. I don't know if I need it for sulfur purposes (to keep sulfate from being turned into H2S), but it does protect the water heater nicely while making sure there is no magnesium or aluminum-zinc anode to react. Backwashing filters do not take out sulfate. Mine is 134 vs your 46.
 

ditttohead

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Not a fan of the valve on that system.

KDF and softener combo would not be recommended.

Nothing wrong with going with an iron reduction system first, then adding a softener if desired later.
 

verbalkint99

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what valve dont you like? the 5600 or the one on the katalox filter?

I may do just that and do the iron removal first then see if a softener is needed later.

Any suggestions on an inline filter (big blue) to plumb in after the iron filter? All I know is that carbon is no good for untreated well water. So will I be looking for just a sedwmwnt filter?
 

ditttohead

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The 5600 barely has adequate backwash rates for the Katalox Light, the other valve is a knock-off of the 5600 made in China.

There are many valves that are better suited to this application.

There is no real need for a BB filter after the Katalox Light system.
PM sent
 

Reach4

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The next size bigger than mine comes with a Fleck 7000 SXT.

My 1.5 cuft Centaur unit only uses a 5 GPM backwash. Centaur Carbon is lighter and calls for less backwash velocity than Katalox Light. As far as I can tell, the 5600 SXT is supposed to be able to backwash at 7 GPM. Most pumps can provide the 7 GPM they use with the 2 cuft 13-inch diameter unit. It is not necessary that the pump be able to provide 7 GPM at max pressure, but to use the bigger one, the well pump should be able to maintain 7 GPM at 30 PSI.
 
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montelatici

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OK Reach4, I went back over the other threads I started and reread the posts, especially yours. From what I understand you are talking about doing a backwash iron filter>4.5x20 BB inline filter>pressure gauge/bypass valve>water softener. Is this correct?

If so I have three questions:

Are either of these the style of iron filters you are talking about?
http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/genesis-highflow-backwashing-katalox-filter-1-cubic-foot.html
http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/the-eliminator-5600-sxt-1-5-cubic-foot-470.html

What filter would I need to use in the BB filter? Carbon or sediment?

And last, with cost being the main factor, would there be anything wrong with going with the iron filter first and reevaluating a need for a water softener in the future? I was told my hardness is not far off from that of the local municipal supply anyway, and I am not seeing any buildups in the appliances.

Another option that was offered up was a KDF filter/water softener combo unit, it seems that set up would be easier but I worry about longevity and the loss of the ability to use unsoftened water.

Thank you again for all the help, and I do apologize if I am being any bit annoying.

I have the Katolox filter Iron filter you linked to. The valve is a Canature 785 set for filter backwashing. I suggest you go to the Canature North America website and check it out before you make a decision. You should also call their tech support like did, you will get a very knowledgeable tech who can answer most of your questions. I called about programming the valve and the guy I spoke to was a real professional. Answered all my questions. I had very troublesome water for 15 years! Rainsoft kept coming back saying the softener was all I needed and always claimed that the media was fine and would last forever. This is while paying 30 bucks a month for the whole 15 years. I almost had a new well drilled but I decided to do some research and now have absolutely perfect water.

Like you I did not want to do an overkill so I started with a 64K grain softener and followed it with a backwashing carbon filter. It was obvious the the softener was being overwhelmed by the iron and the sediment filter (the kind with cartridges) was also not able to do the job. I looked into the Katolox Light media and called the guy from Spain that has a site/blog about the media. Though he is an industrial water treatment guy, he convinced me that all the older iron removal techniques are very inferior to Katolox, even if the Katolox were not also an amazing sediment removal media.

For your information, my system has the Katalox filter first as a sediment and iron removal filter, feeding a salt-based water softener feeding a carbon backwashing filter. The Katalox filter backwashes every three days, the softener is a demand system and it uses very little salt compared to the Rainsoft softener I had. The carbon backwash filter backwashes very rarely and is also demand controlled.
 
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Reach4

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Having a backwashing activated carbon filter after your softener is unusual. What is its purpose?
 
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