Starting a Plumbing Project on my Own...

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moparfreak

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Hello folks,

First time here, got the link over from Garage Journal. Looks like a great wealth of knowledge here! Anyways, I am embarking on a large addition to my ranch house right now, expanding the garage and kitchen, and adding a half bath on that end, and redoing the laundry room. To give some reference here's the plan: Everything above the dotted line separating the two sinks in the kitchen is actual new construction. Everything below it is existing construction that is being remodeled.

Remodel Plan.jpg

Aside from the foundation, framing & electric, I am doing the entire remodel/addition. I am generally very handy, and have most tools needed, etc. But, most of my experience lies with replacement and repair, not starting from scratch.

So with the plumbing aspect of this job, I'm at a loss with what's the best way to approach this? How do you plan out the supply and drains? I plan to PEX most of it, and I've got a 5" drain stack in that corner of the house where the kitchen / bath is. I have a little bit of time with the weather here in WI preventing much progress on the foundation and framing, so I'd like to make sure I plan this right so when I start, but what is the best way to go about laying out the plumbing infrastructure? Are there any good resources I can follow? I do have the code available and a helpful inspector so I will be reviewing that closely and getting his signoff before starting. Do plumbers typically make up a schematic that has to be reviewed?

Just not sure how to go about this and get it started. Any advice is very much appreciated!

Thanks,
Adam
 

Tom Sawyer

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Well to start off there's no such thing as 5" DWV or water pipe so that alone sets the stage for the project if you plan on doing the plumbing yourself. You will generally need to bring the inspection department some sort of plan or isometric drawings and of course, apply for a permit but beyond that, the scope of your project is going to require a professional, licensed plumber.
 

moparfreak

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Sorry about that, I mis-spoke. The drain stack I am referring to is a 2" copper mated to a 4.5" OD cast iron going into the floor. I was at work when I wrote the post so didn't check closely. Picture of it is below. I'd be looking to use this for my kitchen and bath fixtures. 1/2" galvanized from the supply which is nearby on that end of the basement.

Drain Stack.jpg

There is no other option, this will be DIY. Would love to sit back and write checks to professional but that's not my situation. This project is either DIY or doesn't happen at all. Already writing $50K for foundation/framing/electrical. Slow and steady with careful research & planning will be my method here. I do have a building and plumbing permit granted from the city, and the inspector is friendly to the project.

Thanks,
Adam

moparfreak_plumbing1.jpg
 
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Gary Swart

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Be prepared to have to tear out and redo a lot of plumbing before it will pass inspection. There are a bizzilion ways to screw up and just a few ways to do it right.
 

Tom Sawyer

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So you are going to pay a framing contractor, foundation contractor and an electrician but for some reason you think you can handle the plumbing and heating on your own? Its pretty obvious that you have no skills or experience with plumbing or heating and believe me, anything you get off DIY sites on a project that big is pretty much going to be useless. Without actually being there and seeing and measuring what you have in place and want to do, its impossible for anyone to lead you through that project and for that matter I doubt any professional would even try. But, here, I'll give it a shot. Throw some pipes in there any old way you can and call for an inspection. Tear it all out and start over. Go on 15 different DIY sites and ask a few hundred questions and then try and decide who's giving you good advice and who isn't. Put more pipes in and tear them out again. Waste a few hundred or thousand dollars getting it wrong and then give in and do what you should have done in the first place. Call a licensed professional.
 

hj

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quote; So with the plumbing aspect of this job, I'm at a loss with what's the best way to approach this? How do you plan out the supply and drains? I plan to PEX most of it, and I've got a 5" drain stack in that corner of the house where the kitchen / bath is.

Do it the way we do. Go to apprentice school for 4 years and work for 5 years to learn most of what there is to know about water and waste and vent design and installation. Did someone tell you that "anyone can be a plumber if he has some pipe and fittings"? You may need that 5" drain line if you add several stories on top of your building.
 
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hj

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quote; Waste a few hundred or thousand dollars getting it wrong and then give in and do what you should have done in the first place

Or cover it up quickly before any one can see it.
 
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moparfreak

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"So you are going to pay a framing contractor, foundation contractor and an electrician but for some reason you think you can handle the plumbing and heating on your own? Its pretty obvious that you have no skills or experience with plumbing or heating and believe me, anything you get off DIY sites on a project that big is pretty much going to be useless. Without actually being there and seeing and measuring what you have in place and want to do, its impossible for anyone to lead you through that project and for that matter I doubt any professional would even try. But, here, I'll give it a shot. Throw some pipes in there any old way you can and call for an inspection. Tear it all out and start over. Go on 15 different DIY sites and ask a few hundred questions and then try and decide who's giving you good advice and who isn't. Put more pipes in and tear them out again. Waste a few hundred or thousand dollars getting it wrong and then give in and do what you should have done in the first place. Call a licensed professional."


Congratulations, you win the internet today. Good job. You must be very proud. I could also school you in my trained professional field (BS + MS + 10 yrs IC engine design) but if you came to me for advice on how to develop a connecting rod or valvetrain, rather than mock what you're trying to do I'd actually just give advice to the best of my ability. But that is neither here nor there.

You can proceed to just ignore this post. My mistake for coming to a highly recommended plumbing forum titled "DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks", and then asking a DIY question.

Thanks,
Adam
 

Tom Sawyer

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I'm glad I won something for a change but that's not the point. The point is that as HJ said, it takes a lot more than asking questions and reading a few books to understand and properly install plumbing systems. Why don't you tackle the electrical? Do you think that electrical is more difficult than plumbing is? I understand your desire to save money and you may even fancy yourself a pretty good handyman but believe me, I have been doing this for 40 years now and HJ has been at it longer than me. I am not only a licensed master plumber, I am also a retired plumbing inspector, member of the state plumbing board, plumbing re-certification seminar provider, hold a masters in engineering and teach plumbing and HVAC to high school students and adult education students. IOW, I've been at this profession a long time. Long enough to pretty much guarantee that your project is well beyond the scope of your skills. But, by all means continue on and ignore the best advice you will get on any forum from anybody else.

Your mistake is in assuming that your project is a DIY project.
 

Houptee

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Did you consider using mini-split ductless a/c heat pump for this addition area?

Maybe your existing HVAC system is too small to handle more sq footage but you need to do a heat loss/gain calc to determine that.
 

hj

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quote; a highly recommended plumbing forum titled "DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks", and then asking a DIY question.

You are confused. This site is for DIY questions about minor items, NOT a complete plumbing system done by a novice. If you want to know how to fix something ask away. You might help him with his con rod, but what wolud you do if he wanted to build a complete engine?
 
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moparfreak

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You are confused. This site is for DIY questions about minor items, NOT a complete plumbing system done by a novice. If you want to know how to fix something ask away. You might help him with his con rod, but what wolud you do if he wanted to build a complete engine?

Simple. I would provide guidance based on my own experiences on how to lay out the basics of what the engine needs to do, relate it to its target application and the duty cycle it would see, (road loads, gearing, etc.) and start backing out of that its torque output requirements which leads to displacement calculations, as well as guidance on how to make critical decisions such as induction, bore-to-stroke, mains, rod R/L ratio, fueling strategy, etc. I've got dozens of spreadsheets and calculations I'd be happy to share as well as a comprehensive resource list to I guess things are just different here. I've dedicated my career to it, love it and always enjoy the opportunity to teach it.

I don't mean to offend. I'm not sure what I wrote that set folks off. As I mentioned above, my mistake. If I need to ask "is this the right fitting to use" or "what size pipe", then I'll come back here for advice.

Thanks,
Adam
 

MikePlummer

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adam - in your language this is like someone saying I have an engine in my car - im going to change it to a better high performance upgrade...heres a picture....now how? you would obviously have to know ALOT more than what they've given you...
 

moparfreak

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Mike, sometimes all it takes is a picture to get the gears turning on a good problem to solve but in all seriousness, I agree with what you wrote. I can see that I started things out too broad. I've gotten some helpful advice already, and will go back to the plans, develop schematics and perform the heat load calculations, then come back with more specific details so that knowledgeable folk here that are friendly have some context with which to provide advice.

Thanks,
Adam
 

WJcandee

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I find this one helpful in understanding how things are supposed to go.

http://www.klickitatcounty.org/documentcenter/view/103

Gotta say, I am embarassed how the pros are piling on. And guys like me who are only learning the Code as an afficianado aren't competent to give you the whole plan.

I sort of get it; I can answer a quickie legal question but it's a little hard if someone were to ask me to tell them how to defend themselves in a whole lawsuit.

The problem is that the pros that participate here are at the top of their field, know what they are doing, and share their valuable time. And they may think that they are being asked to share too much.

However, just saying "Hire a plumber" isn't the answer either. You have to hire someone with a great reputation, confirmed from as many sources as possible. Fact is, I have seen examples on this forum and in real life of work done by incompetent, ripoff hacks who are nevertheless licensed plumbers. A lot of them. The guys on here seem to think that all members of their Brotherhood must be as reliable, good people as they are, but it isn't the case. Just as in my profession: I am happy to criticize the work done by other lawyers if it merits it. And I don't assume that the next guy will do as good a job. Likely, he won't. But there's a lot of pride on here and a feeling that at a certain point folks are entitled to be compensated for their expertise. But in my view, you shouldn't be castigated quite as much as seems to have happened in this thread.

Look at the resources we cited, come back with some more specific questions, and I hope you will receive a better reception.
 
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Terry

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I also think that this is a good link about plumbing.

http://www.klickitatcounty.org/documentcenter/view/103

Typically you will need to vent the fixtures.
Vents can tie together 6" above the flood level of the fixture.
If you bring a downstairs vent up to the next floor, it either goes through the roof on it's own, or it can revent to an upstairs vent at 42" above that floor.
Wet venting can be done with bathroom sets, located on the same floor.
Wet venting is not allowed on kitchen sinks, laundry trays, washers.

A typical bathroom set, stacked.

dwv_b2.jpg


Currently, it looks like the venting for the laundry tray has not been done right. Or maybe I just need a different angle on the photo.

moparfreak_plumbing1.jpg


Where is the vent for the laundry tray?
 
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Houptee

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Every guy on this site at some point in their life was a DIYer and that's how they got into the trades.
They all started out helping their father or grandfather or uncle fix something around the house.
Most likely out of necessity, when a pipe broke, or a fuse blew, or a roof leaked, you got out the tools and you fixed it yourself because people did not have a lot of money to pay someone else to do it, so you had no choice.

If you pick up a phone and hire someone where is the sense of pride and accomplishment in that?

Will you make mistakes? Of course you will.
We all have, and all will again.
But you learn from your mistakes, and when it costs you money and time, you never forget those mistakes!

The good thing about PEX, and drain and waste plumbing, is the materials are relatively inexpensive, so if the inspector fails something its not going to put you in the poor house to tear out a few things and redo it. It will mainly cost you time.

I live in NJ and my neighborhood was under 43" of water after Sandy. Every house on my street had to be gutted on the first floor.

I saw multiple licensed plumbers and licensed electricians working all summer on my neighbors houses.
Guess what?
They all failed inspections for plumbing and electrical!
All 3 of my neighbors, each had a different contractor, so that's 3 plumbers that failed, 3 electricians that failed. 6 licensed pros had to make multiple trips back to remedy things and they were pissed.
Yes it was all minor issues, but still surprised me to see and hear about all the red tags.

So keep on truckin' Rome wasn't built in a day!

Like Rocket Scientist always says: Have Fun!
 
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