Start Pump Relay

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by he8833, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I posted this over on the irrigation forum with no luck anyone want to take a stab?

    Ok guys I need some help newbie to all of this

    here is the setup trying to help my pop out

    3/4 horse lake pump plugged into outlet 10 feet from shoreline 115 line run from outside outlet to a 30 amp circuit which is on the main electrical panel for house

    Coming directly off the pump has a 4 valve spicket like this http://www.berryhilldrip.com/images/62032FauPic.jpg in which 3/4 inch polyethylene tubing is connected. He primarily only uses 2 of the four lines. First line has the "stake in ground sprinklers" coming off the tubing for watering the lawn covers the lawn great...

    2nd line is for watering a garden bed

    The most efficent way @ the moment is he walks down into the basement to turn on the circuit which turns on the pump (not very pratical)


    Question for this post so I can better understand the fundemntals

    Is their such thing as pump start relay with a timer built in timer? This way its simply turns on the pump and only 1 valve is open (single zone) which waters the lawn based on a schedule. In my limitied reading it sounds like most pump start relays are connected to a irrigation controller. However its sounds like a controller is neccessary when you have multiple zones (valves)? If we wanted to keep this really basic as to simply control 1 zone....Does such a pump start relay exist.

    Any other suggestions are welcome

    thanks in advance
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I've never heard of what your describing but, it wouldn't work well unless you were using enough of the pump's output to keep it from deadheading or cavitating or causing it's pressure switch from shutting it off (I suspect he has no switch now). And if not using all the water the pump delivers, then you need a pressure switch and pressure tank or a small tank and a CSV.
  3. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Gary

    Here's a bit more info its a 3/4HP Goulds model C6470164. No I dont belive there is a pressure tank as I'm the one that lugs the thing down to the lake each year and actually my pop just confirmed no pressure switch...We plug it in, it runs and waters the lawn pretty basic. My guess is were using the all pumps output as we have all the valves to the 3/4 poly always open and sprinklers running full bore.

    Again I dont understand all this quite yet, but it sounds like the pressure tanks are used when the pump has electric going to it, but only turns on when a spicket is opened or basically when there is a call for water.

    In my situation I simply want to know if we can turn the pump off and based on a timer which is set to a schedule. I thought the pump start relay is the device that was required to do so, but it seems most are tied into a irrigation controller (to turn on and off multiple zones). At present I dont need that
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    A pump start relay in an irrigation timer can turn on the pump even when there are no electric valves. This is needed if you want to set up a schedule on a weekly basis. If you want to run on a daily basis, you can use the same kind of timer used on swimming pool pumps.
  5. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    To clarify do they make a pump start relay with a built in timer.....If so can you recommend a brand and model

    Ideally I would want the pump to turn on once a day for apprx 30-60 minutes a few times a week @ a specfic time in the day. Based on your comments it sounds like the pump start relay would be the device to use vs. the swimming pool timer which sounds like its more appropiate if I wanted to water several times a day each day of the week.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Then look up a 24 hour 230v water heater or outdoor lighted sign timer. I used to have one that was programmable and it should do what you want done.
  7. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Any irrigation controller with a pump start relay will work. Like Rainbird, Irritrol, Hunter, etc.
  8. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Why is a irrigation controller neccessary if I simply want to turn the pump off and on....I thought irrigation controller was necessary to turn off and on multiple zones. Do they not make a start pump relay with a timer built in?

    Sorry I need this really "dumbed down" so I'm on the same page...Thx for your patience The controller seems to serve 2 purposes timing and controlling valves to turn specific zones. I dont have the zone, just the timing variable....I was hoping the pump relay would have a timer built in so that I would not have to buy a irrigation controller as I dont have any zones to control.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  9. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    If you want to run it everyday, a 24 hour swimming pool timer will work. If you only want it to work 1 or more times per week, you need a 7 day irrigation controller. It is still just a 7 day timer with several outputs. You only use one output to turn on the pump. You will have several outputs that are not used, but that is normal. The irrigation controller is just one of the cheapest ways to get a 7 day timer. Most irrigation controllers already have a pump start relay built in. You just won't use the outputs for the valves.
  10. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    For $30 plus shipping, with 12 cycle positions per day and a manual override reset button to turn the pump on at other times than the scheduled time, it is hard to beat this. It has been around for decades and made by probably the world's largest timer manufacturer; and it handles 25 amps.

    I didn't see how many minutes per cycle.

    http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-WH21-Electric-Water-Heater/dp/B00002N5FP
  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
  12. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Guys thx for the options. I ended up calling Intermatic before you posted the timer links and they steared me towards timer ET1705CR http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/fi...05c eng.ashx by no means am I set on using there suggestion just yet.

    Now it has alot of flexibility programmable for different days, different times, overide button and has a battery backup. They also recommended a timer specifically for irrigation and essentially was the same timer as above but without the battery backup feature. All that aside the link Valveman posted seems to be very similar to Intermatic's irrigation but your suggestion was alot cheaper which is great!

    In my dad's scenario @ present he really only has 1 zone however down the line if we decided to add some solenoids down @ the pump whether Intermatic controller or the one Valveman suggested today could these controllers operate opening them. The rep from Intermatic seemed to suggest so and Valeman with your comments on having additional outputs that wouldn't be used @ present with my pop's scenario but I would like to know if they have the capability to do so down the road if we decided to add solenoids by the pump @ a later date
  13. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    There are lots of different brands and models of timers. It is pretty much six of one or a half dozen of the other. You don’t need a very expensive one, and it will still have more options than you will need. Yes these type controllers can start the pump and/or open and close zone valves as required. Just using the pump start relay to turn the pump on with an open pipe to the sprinklers is pretty safe. When you start adding zone valves, a pump start relay can sometimes cause problems. If the pump start relay starts the pump but, the wires to the zone valve are damaged like from gophers, the pump will be dead headed and quickly melt down.

    With multiple zones I prefer a pressure tank, pressure switch, and Cycle Stop Valve to control the pump, and let the irrigation controller just open zone valves. That way if the sprinklers don’t pop up, the pump doesn’t even come on.
  14. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota

    Now its all coming together! The timer I listed and the one you listed will do both open turn on the pump and control the solenoid's if he decided to "zone" the system down the road. However because he will be operating just a single zone e.g. sprinkler @ this time the pump tank is not neccessary. Correct?


    I had also received advice to add a pressure tank pressure switch and then purchase a battery operated programmable water bib valve. When it opens pressure drops, water turns on, bang I'm automated.

    Whis this second alternative would you agree that its a legimate approach?

    That being said seems if I added the pressure tank now I may be getting somewhat ahead of myself as he only has the 1 zone and really it would not serve as "safety" mechanism unless there were additional zones/valves.
  15. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You are correct! The only thing with a pressure tank/pressure switch is that you have to match every zone exactly to the size of the pump. If you put on a 5 GPM zone and the pump will produce 10 GPM, the pump will cycle on and off (which is not good) while running the zone. You either need to make every zone 10 GPM (or the size of your pump), or you can use a Cycle Stop Valve before the pressure switch and tank. This will make the pump match any size zone without cycling.
  16. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Sounds like adding the battery operated programmable bib valve would be more cumbersome than simply adding the controller for my single zone application..I cant see any reason until he decides to create multiple zones to add the pressure tan/switch/cycle stop valve @ this time, do you?

    Now 3 last questions.

    1st I suppose I would want to select a controller that has the capability to control multiple zones. Logic being when he decides to upgrade to multiple zones he's not forced to buy another controller. Is the controller you recommended cable of future expansion to run multiple zones? Do you recommend any others?

    2nd Suppose he adds the solenoid's down by the pump. Does a another wire need to be run in addition to the existing one that goes to the outlet to control the solenoids. Or can he tie into the existing wire that runs to the outlet to power the solenoid

    3rd have read some posts that discuss some kind of temperature sensor shutoff device. Would one be necessary for the single zone application were going to do? Thinking along the lines if the timer malfunctioned for some reason and the pump was running for an extened period of time? Temp sensor would shut it down so pump didnt overheat?

    Thanks for your patience in explaning this
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I think you're over thinking this, and since I'm a Dad of an adult child, yours may not want any of this 'extra stuff'.

    I suggest the $30 timer now, and IF he wants more zones later, which he may never want (especially if it means more mowing etc.), THEN add a pressure switch, small pressure tank and a CSV and you're done until he adds more zones than the gpm of the pump can deliver water to and then, add the irrigation controller and solenoids.

    And either way the timer could still be used to prevent water use (leaks maybe) at other times than for the irrigation, or he could push the reset button and use all he wants.
  18. he8833

    he8833 New Member

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    You think! Yes for sure I'am

    I'm on the same page for doing the timer, only difference is why not go with the one Valveman recommends as it has the optionality to support zoning down the road . Seems like it would wiser to go with a product that has this capability now vs having to have buy another controller down the road. Would you agree?
  19. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I suggest the $30 timer now, and IF he wants more zones later, which he may never want (especially if it means more mowing etc.), THEN add a pressure switch, small pressure tank and a CSV and you're done until he adds more zones than the gpm of the pump can deliver water to and then, add the irrigation controller and solenoids.
Similar Threads: Start Pump
Forum Title Date
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog pump start relay - where to get just the relay May 21, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Franklin Motor Starter or Franklin Pump Motor? Sep 28, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Pump starter relay Aug 21, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Sump pump wont start Mar 15, 2013
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog pump getting electricity, but not starting Feb 10, 2013

Share This Page