StaRite MSE-7 deep well problem

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by Brownbagger, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. Brownbagger

    Brownbagger New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    florida
    This is a new experience for me on this forum. I recently bought an old house which was originally on a deep well and later connected to city water. The deep well was used just for general service. I know the well worked when I bought the house, albeit there were dozens of busted lines and valves in need or repair. I primed the pump and had plenty of water and pressure but the motor/impeller shaft/seal needed service. I elected to have a pump man do the job and was told the shaft (stainless) was too far gone (pitted) to replace the seal. I elected to procure my own pump and found an exact replacement on line far cheaper than the pump man. My 2" well casing was left open for a couple of months while working other issues and finally getting a new StaRite MSE7. I attached the pump to the well and could not get it to prime. The least amount of air can be a priming headache. I tried and tried and couldn't achieve prime; I talked around and was told the foot valve on the well head probably stuck open or wasn't sealing properly; I should pull the well and inspect both lines and the foot valve. I disconnected the pump and adaptor assembly at the adaptor flange. I was able to manually lift the casing adaptor and the twin pipe assembly; so I pulled it up about two feet and realized this thing could be longer than any support structure I had available so I eased it back into the casing and called a reputable well service. They came out and said there was no way to tell if the pipes were intact, or the foot valve was any good; and usually the whole thing would have to be scrapped. He wants to put a new well (shallow well) down and convert/adapt my pump. I am convinced the MS is a superior deep well pump but makes for a very low volume shallow well pump.

    What options do I have....I would like to have the good deep well water. The pump expert says He has never seen a dual pipe system in a 2 inch well casing. He was close to calling me a liar when I told him what was attached to well casing adaptor....

    I have some ideas but I need some input on options. I can pull the whole thing in pieces and replace everything piece by piece into the casing...but I don't know if there is a bad joint at any of the well casing sleeves. I appreciate any response.
    Brownbagger
  2. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    I've never seen a two pipe on a 2" case either. I don't think you can get two pipes and the venturi in a 2" case.

    Next question though is, since you have city water, why bother with the well?
  3. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,134
    Location:
    IL
  4. Brownbagger

    Brownbagger New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    florida
    nhmaster and reach4.....thanks for the response....and I owe an apoogy. I just separated the pump assy from the casing adaptor and there is a single 1 1/2 inch pvc going into the 2 inch well casing. I was wrong about the two pipes side by side in thcasing. Old timers is coming o too soon!

    So I am thinking now that I couldn't prime the pump because the cup seals probably dried out and I couldnt pressurize the casing. I need to pull the suction pipe to see where the water level is..the neighbor says it is about 16 to 20 feet below grade.
  5. Brownbagger

    Brownbagger New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    florida
    reach4 I think I have my ducks in a row now!....my well is like pictured in the link you sent. I realize now that the casing is pressurized (pressure is maintained by the casing adaptor topside and the cup washers below the water line in the casing. I can see how priming might be a bit tricky especially if you couldn't mantain casing pressure. At the casing flange I inserted a garden hose and applied a steady stream of water until the casing overflowed (the flange is about a foot out of the casing) the water was clear and I didn't see any sand or rust particles (depth might be the reason for this). I am assuming the foot valve is like a check valve; in that it keeps the pump from losing its prime. Is this reverse flow of the water normal in this little exercise. The water level at the top of the casing drops below the visible line a couple of seconds after turning the hose off. Would that indicate a leaking casing or a leaking check vavle.....

    I can replace everything in the casing but I need to know if the casing is intact. I think I will get new gaskets and seals (except cup seals at this time) and try prime once more. I could have had an air leak the first time and I need to try this again just for drill.
    brownbagger
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,529
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Your well casing is NOT pressurized by anything other than atmospheric pressure, (in fact, you would not even need a casing if you had a "driven" well which is just a pipe pounded into the ground down to the water), which is why it can only pump water down to about 27' below the pump, or jet housing.
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,922
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    If there are two pipes going to the well, then you have a deep well packer and the space between the casing and drop pipe would in fact be pressurized in normal operation.

    [​IMG]
  8. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,135
    Location:
    Maine
    He doesn't have a two pipe, packer or anything other than a shallow well jet pump pulling from a 2" well case. The lack of suction is either the foot valve at the end of the drop (most likely) or a broken fitting, and or leak in the pipe to the pump.
  9. Brownbagger

    Brownbagger New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    florida
    I apologize again for erring in the original startup post. Again thanks for all the experience and professionalism. Looking at the pictures linked to me and looking at the installation sheet for StaRite I can be certain: It is a single pipe ejector system as indicated in responder posts and the StaRite sheet. I have a vertical 1hp multi stage deep well pump attached to a 2 inch well casing with a j216-21 casing adapter. Yesterday I removed the pump at the adapter and pulled the down pipe assembly up about two feet and chocked it in position. I took a garden hose from the house bib adjusted the flow rate into the casing discharge port such that the discharge line filled and the casing began to overflow. I removed the running hose and both the casing and the discharge line leaked down out of sight in just a couple of seconds. Not sure what this proves. I will wait until the water reaches its static level and insert an open ended garden hose and see if I can determine things like water level in the discharge line. I don't know how deep the well is but I know the ejector system has to be under water 10 to 20 feet according to install sheet.

    I believe the pump has to pressurize the casing causing a high lifting suction at the nozzle head. It would seem to me that the slightest air bubble or leak would cause a priming issue. I am trying to locate gaskets and seals so I can retry priming again....I may have a bad footer valve or I may have a bad joint in the (galvanized) casing. Once again, I took the pump out of service to get it rebuilt only to face a badly pitted shaft/seal issue. I took a few weeks looking around and finally found an exact replacement (except for being wound in Mexico) on line at a good price. The well casing was open for a couple of months with bucket cover. Priming the new pump failed.....I did not replace the casing adaptor seals; I cleaned and checked every thing but I could have had an air leak....or the fool valve coud be stuck open....I dont know; yet. brownbagger
  10. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,922
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Sounds like you will need to pull the packer. Pull it a few feet at a time, stop, and fill the casing with water to see if it holds. If at some point it does hold, then it means one of three things.

    1. The footvalve decided to start working.
    2. The leathers sealed.
    3. You are above a leak in the casing.

    Some folk have worked around a bad casing by keeping the packer above the bad spot and adding a length of pipe to the footvalve. It may or may not work.
  11. Brownbagger

    Brownbagger New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    florida
    lligetta....makes sense to me. Maybe I wont have to "scrap it and put in a shallow well" sayeth the pump man. Thanks, Brownbagger
  12. Brownbagger

    Brownbagger New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    florida
    This is a followup and closure of this thread for me. I had a bit of a delay on the pump. Working on landscaping and stump removals and using city water. Today I got back on the well today. We are pumping cold clear good tasting water and lots of it. The two inch casing had two 20 foot lengths of schedule 80 and a short stub with the foot valve on it. Expenses for parts and some help ran about 300 dollars...I'm pleased to say everything is new from the pump down to the foot valve except the discharge line. This thing primed beautifully and throws a strong one inch flow. One mistake I made was looking at the discharge line from topside of the adaptor; it looked like the bare end of thin wall pvc and I just naturally assumed this would require a tri pod to pull. I found out sch 80 bends more than expected and only one cut was necessary to place the whole ejector system above ground. Two well specialists weren't too eager to talk to me about the situation. They kept saying it was a sophisticated system and I would be better off to put in a shallow well and cap the old deep well. I ended up with keeping my old well operational, dodging the new fees for poking a shallow well hole in the ground plus the added expense of buying totally new hardware. I was also told I could expect to shell out 3500 dollars for a new deep well if the old one had a rusted through casing joint. All in all 300 seems sweet!
    All I have to do now is plumb the tank, repair a couple of busted sprinker lines, and build a pump house. Brownbagger

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