spud and spud washer questions.

[edshuck]

Oh, boy. Where to begin.

The tank is wall mount, the toilet is floor mount and the two "were" connected by a 2" elbow.

The brand is N O Nelson of St Louis. (they moved to someplace in Ill back in 1888 and began to concentrate on fire hydrant products.

We needed to do some work with the wall so I removed the tank. I had expected problems with the elbow so when it cracked (2" along the turn) it was no shock.

The compression fitting was frozen to the spud and to work on it I had to remove the spud. The spud washer seems to be just a ring of plumbers putty - hardened and became dust when removed.

The compression washer was packed oakum (used in cast iron soil pipe).

The spud is not the one available in the stores. There are two flanges 180 degrees apart. These fit into a slot. When inserted into the back of the bowl and turned about 160 degrees to the right - encounter a stop in the molding of the bowl. The balance of the outside of the spud is threaded and readily accepts the current lock bolt, acts as a stop for the expansion washer and accepts the expansion nut.

Question 1 - Is there anyone with N O Nelson experience that can help?

Question 2 - Is the putty thing a fix or a kludge? Or was it a washer that, over the years, just fell apart?

Any help - and as always - thanks for reading the post.

ed

 

[Terry]

Normally a spud is assembled with a rubber washer. I don't know what they did in 1888 though.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[edshuck]

Normally a spud is assembled with a rubber washer. I don't know what they did in 1888 though.

Are there practices used when putting on the washer? I have tried two rubber washers and with no success. Both of these were the standard 2" with a step design,sharing a common id but with a smaller od for the innermost part and a larger od toward the lock nut.

The washers were identical.

I am not giving up on the problem or the project. It has been a learning experience. I have the time.

I will have the camera back tommorow. Are a couple of small jpg ok?

Peace

ed

 

[Redwood]

I would say if the spud came out or, moved get a new one. Try Mcmaster Carr

Also key is getting the new flush el cut to the right dimensions. If the angle is off because you are too long or short it will leak.

Whatever you do don't spin the flush valve! you'll be deep in the do do if you do that...

 

[edshuck]

I would say if the spud came out or, moved get a new one. Try Mcmaster Carr

Also key is getting the new flush el cut to the right dimensions. If the angle is off because you are too long or short it will leak.

Whatever you do don't spin the flush valve! you'll be deep in the do do if you do that...

I replaced the internal workings of the tank, including the flush valve. I have, at one time during this trek, mounted the tank, with the el in place and the only leak is from the spud. I did cut the new el. One dimension was perfect but the other was long. The compression fittings worked great.

My failing point is the spud.

I would love to buy a new spud but I just have to photo and attach. The two little "ears" (I have been calling them flanges but I suspect that is not right) are on the outside.
I cannot find a new spud.. The photo will explain the problem.

Back soon with that.

ed

 

[edshuck]

OK, got three photos. This might exceed the allowed bit size. If it does, I will do some more reduction.



The photos are wc1 showing the spud hole, spud1 and spud2 which show that the spud is little more than a piece of threased cast brass with a couple of "ears" at a non threaded end.

wc1 shows a space st the top. when the spud is inserted, the bottom, one of the "ears" is hooked over the porcelin lip, the other ear is inserted in the opening and the spud is rotated to the right. This is the physical attachment to the bowl.

Then the rubber washer and the nut go on. I think

Is there a way to decrease the friction betwween the washer and the bowl?

 

[Redwood]

You aren't going to find that one anywhere...

Is it only leaking at the connection where the flush el connects?

Or, at the spud connection to the toilet?

 

[edshuck]

Thanks for the reply. And thanks to all those who both replied and viewed.

My problem is getting the washer over the stub and into that darn porcelain hole. i think I will be ok once I do that. I am being VERY cautious with the pressure on the nut.

Leaks

No leaks. I had one when I had the wrong washer but will not try it again until I have the right one in place correctly.

The photos may have done the trick of describing. Many thanks to Terry for allowing me to post them.

My next step is to get a new washer. The two that I have are distorted and not snugging to the spud without pressure from the nut. And a washer that will not allow the rubber washer to bulge (exposes a small portion of the Inside of the rubber washer).

Thanks to all

ed

 

[hj]

YOu have a "lug spud" and good luck finding anything which will work with it. It needed a tubular gasket that "bulged" when it was tightened, rather than one which got larger as it moves along a tapered surface like the modern ones.

 

[edshuck]

thanks HJ

YOu have a "lug spud" and good luck finding anything which will work with it. It needed a tubular gasket that "bulged" when it was tightened, rather than one which got larger as it moves along a tapered surface like the modern ones.

I have been working with a two inch spud gasket that is "stepped", one O.D. that is slightly less than the outermost. The problem presented is that the spud needs to remain straight. Not tilting to one side or the other, not tilting up or down. This alignment seems essential to getting a good tight seal with no paths for water to flow/seep through.

Thanks again for all the replies. Everyone has been great.

ed



Once I have that I may be in business

 

[edshuck]

If you google "spud and spud washer" this thread is NUMBER 1.

ed