SpiderWeb II - Review of Custom Building Products new Uncoupling Mat

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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    Ardex AF 207 Shear Testing Report

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    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  2. nukeman

    nukeman Nuclear Engineer

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    It looks like you are well under 50 psi for shear. At ~1500lb, this would only be 30 in^2 to get 50 psi shear. I suspect that you are closer to 25 psi based on those numbers.

    However, are you sure about the weight per can? You are saying 150lb per can. At 150 lb, this is only about 18 U.S. gallons. Those cans look to be double that. They are probably at least 32 gallon cans and they may even be 44 gallon cans. So, I think you are really looking at more like 250lb/can (could be near 350lb/can if they are 44 gallon cans).


    If that brick is say 6x12, your failure could be around 3600lb (assuming 50 psi shear). 50 psi is probably in the ballpark since it hasn't had the 28 day cure. It will have most of its strengh after 1 week, but will continue to get better with a longer cure. Your test may also be a bit lower than the actual tested value if your testing surface wasn't perfectly plumb. This could induce a twisting force (instead of pure shear) and say pull the top of the brick away from the surface while also pulling downward.

    This goes to show you how well a good thinset will bond to tile. Even a cheap unmodified thinset could support hanging a car off say a 12x12 tile. I like a good modified thinset more many reasons, but as you can see, the additional strength of the modified thinset isn't really needed. If you had enough shear to really need modified during an actual install, you would probably pull down the house before you actually sheared all the tiles off. :)
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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    Double Checking the weighting system

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  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Without a copy of the industry test procedure, it's easy to not have the same conditions, and the test results differ. In the tests done, it appears that the membrane tore at the top, which then peeled the rest off. Not being there, it's hard to say. I guess, though, that the bottom line is that properly installed, you should not worry about the tile coming loose on its own! If the industry test called for the tile to be grouted, this would also tie multiple tile together, increasing the overall effort required to pull any one tile out. Also, at least with the Ditra, the thinset doesn't really stick to the top side...it is locked into the wedge shaped pockets. So, the effort to pull it up is more of a function of distorting those pockets to get that wider base popped out of them, than the membrane breaking loose from the subflooring.
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Once the bond between the fleece and the membrane breaks, the only thing left is the plastic, and that, while tough, will tear. I agree, as long as you are consistent in how you run these experiments, the relative differences are accurate but may not match the industry standard test.
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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  8. chefwong

    chefwong New Member

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    KEWL Testing you got there.

    I've yet to read the thread in it's entirety.....but give me the cliff notes version on the shear strength testing.
    Seems mighty strong nevertheless .....for a application that is horizontal
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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  10. chefwong

    chefwong New Member

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    Heh. I mean what was the point of the shear test - bearing the stuff we are talking about is generally on a horizontal surface...

    Nevertheless, love the LAB WORK !
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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  12. chefwong

    chefwong New Member

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    U make it sound like THE RACK is staying up until further notice.
    "SHE" must be quite understanding for the reason to the madness ;-)
  13. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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  14. Phil Collins

    Phil Collins New Member

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    This testing was nicely done.
    If you look at uncoupling, one side has to be stronger than the other. Ditra's fleece side is weak and the dove tail side is strong. Spider web one has the fleece as weak side as well and the side with the netting is strong. Spiderweb II has both sides the same and you can call them strong or weak; the problem I see is the mat under tension will uncouple where ever and if it uncouples on top one will have cracked grout lines or even cracked tiles and that would be a failure. Ditra and Spiderweb one will always uncouple on the fleece side and never transfer the stress to the tile or grout line.
    By the way, the Spiderweb one is available on the Internet and called DURAL CI++, it was tested by the TCNA and got a "EXTRA HEAVY COMMERCIAL" rating on the ROBINSON FLOOR TEST. It was tested 19.2" oc over plywood.
    Great and by far the best product on the market today.
    Great forum
  15. Phil Collins

    Phil Collins New Member

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    Mistake, sorry
    The test was over OSB, everybody else tested over plywood. You all know that OSB is the weaker material and that makes the test look even better.
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Not all OSB is created equal. While this is a Huber document, the data comes from the 2012 edition of the AF&PA American Wood Council's, Allowable Stress Design (ASD)/LRFD Manual for Engineered Wood Construction. Advantech is both stronger and stiffer than plywood of equivalent thickness. http://www.huberwood.com/advantech/performance/strength

    Anyone know whose osb they used?
  17. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

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    Uncoupling Test - ANSI & TCNA approval for Spider Web and Ditra

    Post(s) removed by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
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