SpiderWeb II - Review of Custom Building Products new Uncoupling Mat

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    SpiderWeb II - Custom Building Products Data Sheet

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  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    A closer look at SpiderWeb II - Custom Building Products new "Ditra Like" Uncoupling

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  4. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    A closer look at SpiderWeb II - Custom Building Products new "Ditra Like" Uncoupling

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  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Back to Back: Ditra vs Spider Web II

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  6. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    With Ditra, the anchor to the membrane is more the dovetail, and at least on that top surface, there is no fleece. The dovetails lock the tile in. The reason you can't use tile smaller than 2x2" on Ditra is those plastic dividers which are only there to create the dovetail pillars. The industry standard for bond strength of the fleece is a MINIMUM of 50#/sqin. Both Ditra and Kerdi typically test out at 150% of the minimum standard. It doesn't sound like this new product will meet that standard, and you are relying entirely on the mesh, both top and bottom to hold things in place...doesn't sound very reliable.
  8. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    WIth that thick of a mesh, it may be enough to allow moisture to wick along the surface. ANd, as you mentioned, it would be very difficult to embed it entirely in the thinset, leading to potential soft surface, susceptible to deflection of the fleece. I'd have to see and try it, but from the pictures, it doesn't impress me.
  10. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  11. suceress

    suceress Member

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    I really love that you are into testing out new products. I wonder if the sample you were given was some sort of dud. But I imagine you thought of that already.

    What exactly is the purpose of these mats? I get that you put tile over them, but I don't know anything more about them than that. I know you mentioned Holmes on Homes as advertising products, but one thing I did note on that program was that they would put down some sort of mat underneath the tiles to sort of buffer it so it would be more forgiving if the subfloor wasn't perfect. At least that was my understanding.

    I wonder how these would work with in-floor heating... Would the heating things go on top of it? Or would something like this just not be used.

    I'm interested in seeing what you find with your Mad Lab testing.
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    http://www.schluter.com/7214.htm pretty much tells and shows the intent of a good underlayment. The membranes are typically thin enough that they do not affect heat transfer when using in-floor heating systems.
  13. suceress

    suceress Member

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    Thanks, jadnashua! I'm loading the video now.

    I'm no expert, but I would think that the thick fleece on the spiderweb II would not conduct the heat very well. Am I wrong on this? It looks like there is enough air in the fleece that it might work as sort of insulation-- unless it just gets very saturated with thinset/adhesive to the point that it wouldn't interfere.

    Its something to consider in testing perhaps?

    Edit: Finished watching the video. I had an "ohhhh! That's how it's done!" moment when I saw how they did the tiles that went a few inches up the wall. I also found myself picturing just how I would end up getting stuff messed up and askew if I were to try it myself. Anything with adhesive and I always end up getting it crooked. LOL.

    That was very informative.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    If the mesh gets embedded well into the thinset, it becomes a non-issue. I'm not sure you'd be able to do that with the new SpiderwebII.
  15. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  16. suceress

    suceress Member

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    I'd love to see how things turn out.

    Not to sound like a sycophant, but I really do think its awesome that you go to such lengths to test the products. I think it really is cool and it helps to have a better understanding of how the products work, their limitations, etc. Too bad there is no "like" button on this forum.
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    The strength test is after full cure...shortchange that, and you risk failure. The industry standard is 50#/sqin for this type of material. Independent tests have shown the Schluter products to achieve at least 75#. Do it before full cure, I do not know the results.
  18. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  19. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    It's rated at the nominal 28-days. It's a shear measurement (parallel to the face), not a hanging measurement (perpendicular to the face), and this assumes a monolithic surface (i.e., grouted). You'd have to look up the specifics of the test. Schluter discusses it in their installation manual, and that may also list the test procedure. Need apples-apples if you want to run the test. Anything over 50#psi meets the industry code for this type of material. When Schluter had the test run, the testing agency came up with 75#psi as the fail point - 50% above the minimum.
  20. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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