Spdt relay

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by jdanw, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. jdanw

    jdanw New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    I purchased an Omron Industrial G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB-AC100/120 relay and wonder if someone can tell me the way it is supposed to be wired? I can post a picture of the diagram on the relay if needed. I will go into the purpose of the relay later if needed after I get info on the wiring diagram. Thanks a million in advance...JDanW
  2. ActionDave

    ActionDave Electrician

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    345
    Location:
    Colorado
    What you want controlled goes to line and load. Switch that activates the relay goes to the coil.
  3. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

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    DPST / NO Relay

    I believe that is a DPST.

    The connections should be simple an indicated on the side of the relay.

    DPST_Relay.jpg
  4. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    The relay switches the adjacent terminals on the rear, (1-2 and 3-4), and the front terminals are the coil.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  6. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

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    I think if a person does not know what the printing on the side has, then they should not be playing with it.

    I am waiting the see the application that it will be used in.

    A SPDT is not the same as a DPST for starters.


    Be careful playing with electricity.
  7. jdanw

    jdanw New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    OK, it would be nice if judgement was withheld until you actually know if I am the guy who "is an idiot because he can't figure it out". If I knew what the symbols meant, I wouldn't have to ask. Kind of like saying if you don't know which the gas and brake pedals are, you shouldn't be driving. We ask, train, go to class, etc. to LEARN. Stepping down from small soap box...I actually designed this whole circuit with an electrician, but I think when I went to get the relay at Grainger, they sold me the wrong one (they sold me one with just 2 connectors, 4 & 6)

    What the drawing says to me: I energize the coil, via 1 & 2, it in turn activates the switches that close 2 to 4 and 6 to 8. I tried this as well as another set-up because things weren't working (probably all started with the wrong relay "teaching" me the wrong way to hook it up) and neither worked. More specifically, what I think the symbols mean, because I am not a trained electrician or electrical engineering student, is I put my HOT to 0, neutral to 1. This is what my switch activates. Then, I wire my equipment to terminals 2 & 6 as HOTs, and the terminals 4 & 8 acts as the neutrals to the equipment. Is this right (BTW HJ, I assume this is what you meant, but had the load terminals labeled as 1-4)

    DPST: got my terminology wrong, again, learning here. As you can see from my drawing and my acquaintance discussed was I need a relay to power two pieces of equipment when the timer is one...thanks again, don't flame me for the mini rant please...just very frustrating to be dogged from the get go...

    relays-new.jpg
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    26,226
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    First off, you have "double pole single throw" dpst switch, NOT a "spdt". Second, the relay connect 2 & 4 together adn 6 & 8, so when you connect the transformer to 2 & 4, you "short it out" when the relay operates. 6 & 8 do NOTHING, because they have NO active feeds to them. But in actuality, from what I can decipher from your drawing is that there is NO HOT OR NEUTRAL wires anywhere on the relay, except at the coil. ALL terminals are isolated, therefore NONE of them are connected to any other terminal. The right hand relay will also do NOTHING, unless its "hot feed" from the timer is connected to the 0 terminal. Time to attend another wiring diagram and electrical circuit class.
  9. jdanw

    jdanw New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    OK, got all that, thanks HJ...Here is the way I interpreted it to begin with, but again, when it didn't work, I doubted myself. Turns out I was right all along. So, I supply power to 0,2 & 6, take neutral off of 1 to complete coil circuit. Power comes out of 4 & 8 when the relay is energized goes to my loads and the neutral from the load goes back to the main supply. Is that right? Or am I still off some...

    relays-new.jpg
  10. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

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    That looks more better.
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Location:
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    You could have saved some wire by jumpering between # 2 and #6 on both relays, then running the neutrals from #1 to the transformers. What is the "black blob" that is activated by either/both relays?

    [​IMG]
    Can you also tell if my wife is pregnant and where I left my car keys?
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  12. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

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    That Round Blob looks like a Fan.

    Wife_Status.jpg
  13. jdanw

    jdanw New Member

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    22
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    NExt question, hope someone is still out there...

    HJ, thanks and it does test right.
    DonL, thanks for coming back after my little rant. I do appreciate the help. I'm ignorant, not stupid...And yes, that blob is a fan. Circuit is designed to open a damper and turn on fan when switch is pushed, from both bathrooms as well, without sending 240 volts to the fan. the electrician helped me design it so the same power is going to the fan when both circuits are open.

    1) Could I have fried my timer switched doing ti the first diagram? I can't get them to function properly. When I use them in the circuit, they close immediately. (If someone would like to help me troubleshoot these switches, I'd take that help also)...anyway...

    2) Can anyone tell me if it's possible to add another timer switch to trip the relay from one bathroom? I have the switch in the toilet room, but would like to put one out in the bathroom proper if possible, so i don't have to go in the toilet room every time I want to turn it on. Is it as simple as what I put in the drawing?

    (I have changed the drawing to more accurately reflect the way it will be done. I started to use red for the SWITCHED power, just to make it easier to follow). Thanks for any and all help!!

    Attached Files:

  14. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

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    It looks good for the most part, as far as working.

    I would be a little concerned about the bare power wires that have damaged and missing insulation.

    As long as it does not need to be inspected, It may work. But may not pass for various reasons.
  15. jdanw

    jdanw New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Thanks DonL. I might do some rejiggering to get insulation on all wires, but this is where I am right now. Do you have a comment on my double switch question in the earlier (but recent) post #13? I appreciate your time to answer. Thanks.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
  16. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

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    If your timers / switches are SPST switches then they would need to be in Parallel with each other.

    You can turn it on from any place, but you can not turn it off , If another switch is closed.

    Your drawing shows that they must be SPST , unless I missed something.


    This may not be a safe DIY project, I would have added fuses, and a smoke detector.
  17. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    Location:
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    I have debated closing this thread and am still considering doing so.

    Should something go wrong you are going to have a handful out of your insurance policy and they might not even pay off.

    This is one of the most dangerous installations I have ever witnessed. I say abandon the thoughts altogether before you lose your home and maybe someone’s life.

    Just what are you trying to prove? It sure is not your ability to make an installation of any kind.
  18. jdanw

    jdanw New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Now why do you say that? IF my installation is the problem, then let's address that. If what i am trying to do is the problem, then let's address that. I have searched and found other people who would like to be able to control a damper on each line of an exhaust run and the inline fan. If it's my installation, what's the problem? If it's the components, what's the problem.

    I would say if it's the components, then by all means, close and delete, as I wouldn't want improper parts being used, but if it's my installation, then I say let's address that, so if anyone else is trying to accomplish this, leave it there for them.

    BTW, the picture I posted is obvoiusly a hack of two pictures, so it is kind of a diagram from actual picture. What DonL referred to as uninsulated wire, is just where I didn't color in where the end of the wire will be under a nut. If it's the uninsulated ground, I can redo it so I have full outer sheathing coming to the transformers. Other than that, what is the problem? Do you just want to see the whole board in a box, due to the fact that the wires are not in the romex? If so, can you explain why the little bit of exposed copper at the screw terminals is any different than that amount being exposed in a switch box? Just asking, because this really didn't seem to bad, I was kind of shocked by the doom and gloom, but I want to make sure that is not due to a mistake on my part of representing the installation properly. Anyway, thanks for sticking with me so far (if it lasts)...Daniel
  19. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

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    3,810
    Location:
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    To be Honest JW does have a valid point.

    We would like to help, but sometimes people get into something that they should not.

    If you understand how electric works then you should know your connections.

    We just want you to be safer than sorry, that is all.

    Do not go away, Please keep us up with your progress.


    You do have a nice project, just don't get hurt doing it.
  20. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,529
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I started in the electrical field in 1968 and have been a licensed contractor for more than 35 years. I have passed the highest level electrical inspectors test that North Carolina offers and have been certified by the state to teach electrical inspectors for more than 12 years.

    As an electrical inspector I am telling you that I would condemn your home and have the meter removed until which time this mess was removed.

    As an electrical contractor I have refused to reply to this thread simply because of the method used in this installation. This is a foolish idea and let me tell you, you aren’t the first to try something like this and just as everyone else before you it is not a good idea and it does not work. You are not the first person to come up with this type of idea and you will not be the last.

    If you want to accomplish the end result you are trying to achieve there is a proper method of doing so without endangering the lives of those who live in that house. Yes it is expensive to do so but it would be safe. Contact your local HVAC dealer for more information. If you are not concerned about your safety please think about your local firemen and don’t put them in danger with something such as posted at the bottom of the first page of this thread.

    In my research of Kansas it seems as though your state has similar laws as NC governing electrical installations, or in other words an electrical installations must meet the adopted codes in your area. What this means is that should there be something go wrong that your homeowners insurance will come after you for any losses they might occur due to this dangerous installation that in no way meets any code.

    The sad part of the Do-It-Yourselfer is they don’t see the dangers doing something like you have rigged up in your attic. They think that if it works it must be fine which is far from the truth. There is enough electrical energy in just one of those low voltage transformers to kill several people instantly at the same time and you not only have the transformer exposed but the entire installation is exposed and unprotected. One small rodent could send your entire home up in smoke just because you have some sort of flawed half-baked idea of ventilation.

    Most who want something installed like this are to remove odor not for the purpose of the fan in the first place. The fans are not installed for odors but are installed for moisture removal. They come up with some half-baked idea of timers and other such items for the wrong purpose thinking they have come up with a cure all that no other person has ever had before and they are going to become famous.

    Your local HVAC contractor can install a system that will give you a negative air pressure at any point of your home and it can be controlled by one local controller or by several controllers placed in different places. This type of installation will come as a listed unit that will be installed in a code compliant manner with no exposed conductors or components.

    Then there is the issue of grounding and I just can’t see any grounding at all in your picture. You have the two green wires from the transformers (heat producers) wired together but to nothing else. Should there be a fault in the primary of either of these two items there is nowhere for that fault to go so it will sit there until flames comes and then………..well I don’t have a looking glass that tells the future but I know that the end will not be pretty. Look at the instructions that come with those transformers and I will bet that it says not for attic installations.

    Do yourself and your family a favor and take this mess out and stop trying to burn down your home. If you want to ventilate your bathrooms have the proper system installed and please stop this now.
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