soldering a slip coupling tight spot

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by billmad, May 2, 2007.

  1. billmad

    billmad New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    My Woodford model 22 sillcock ruptured. (I had a Y connector attached to the spigot). I cut out the rupture, intend to put in a slip coupling. See photo. Problem is, it's in a corner - Will have to tip the torch to solder the rear section of the 3/4" pipe.- I assume that the blow torch will shut off when I tip it. First time I have attempted to solder. Any suggestions?

    I have removed the valve stem.

    I bought a Bernzomatic with a standard JT681 torch head. Don't want to spend much on a torch - I don't plan on using one very often. I do have this very small butane "Handy Torch" 1300 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that hot enough? (See photo)

    I assume the slip coupling will work. New sillcock is $85 at www.buywcm.com so I would prefer not to replace it.

    Another question - I used a tube cutter - but wasn't able to turn/cut all the way around the pipe - ended up pulling off the section I cut - which is why the cut has that bulge. I assume I need to re-cut it - but would rather not. What do you think?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  2. Try the little torch....other than that you will need a torch that you can send the flame where you need it......not where the torch will work only.

    I use a MC tank with sof-flame torch.....it will work upside down but that setup is well over $350.
  3. billmad

    billmad New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thanks. Will I need to re-cut the pipe? If I can get the slip coiupling over it, do I need to bother? Not so easy to cut back there...
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,349
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Since you have that torch, you might as well try it. I have reservations about it being "man enough" for soldering pipe joints, but maybe. I would suggest you flatten a #10 can to use as a heat shield both on the joist and the sill plate. Also have a spray bottle of water handy to quickly put out any fire you may start. Since you've never soldered before, a couple of tips. Clean the pipe ends and the inside of the fittings with emery cloth or the special wire brushes. Be sure you apply plenty of flux...too much won't hurt. Apply heat to the fitting and not directly to the pipe. Heat the joint until the solder will melt when touched to the heated joint. You do not melt the solder directly with the torch. Run the solder around the joint so the melted solder for sure flows around the entire joint. You can wipe the hot solder with a damp rag to clean off burned flux and lumps of solder, but don't move or put stress on the joint until it has cooled. And, don't try to hasten the cooling process with water, let it cool naturally. I can't see the bulge too clearly. It is true we do want a 100% smooth, flat cut, but in reality, if the end is close to square and the coupler will slip on the end, it should be OK. You might want to use a file to take care of any rough spots.
  5. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Messages:
    2,051
    Question: Can you unscrew the sillcock from the wall so you can get a little play in the copper (tilt it up) and then make a cleaner cut?

    You're right in thinking it's a bad cut.

    If you can't get any play in the copper, you could try to notch out the wood under the copper so your tubing cutter won't bottom out so fast and allow you to make a cleaner cut. I would use my Dremel with router bit for that, but there are other ways.
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    If you are trying to solder the hose bib break the chances of it working right after may not be very good.

    I have never attempted that in all trhe years I have been working.

    You should replace the hose bib with a new one there not that expensive.
  7. billmad

    billmad New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    another photo. Shows the bad cut.The Woodford model 22 supplies hot and cold - there are 2 pipes coming out - can only see the one in this photo.

    Attached Files:

  8. Roy Nakamura

    Roy Nakamura New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Okay...I'm not a plumber but I saw these solderless slip on couplings at Home Depot the other day. I've never used them or heard of them before...but would they work well in this application?
  9. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Florida
    Maybe you should save time and frustration and just replace the whole thing.

    If you cut out the split how are you going to put it together. I don't think you can be that exact.
  10. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Messages:
    2,051
    Try a straight sharkbite coupling. You just push it on--no soldering involved. But I'd still want a better cut than what you've got.

    Of course, as others have pointed out, it may not be a standard size tubing and thus you'll have to replace it.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  11. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    exurban Chicago
    I have never tried to couple a sillcock back together. If it's frostfree, you can't. I have soldered screw punctures in a sillcock. I think you need to replace it.
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,636
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    faucet

    Have you actually tried the slip coupling over the valve body? I would be surprised if it is a standard size tubing, and unless you restore it to the original length, exactly, depending on its interior parts it may not operate properly.
  13. billmad

    billmad New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    3/4 inch repair/slip coupling fits over the Woodford tube.

    Matching the exact length of the original tube is something I had not thought about - could be a problem. Will go ahead and give it a try. If this doesn't work, I have only wasted my time and the $3.50 for the repair coupling. My wife wanted to hire a plumber - but it's such a small job, I figured I might be able to fix it...

    What is a straight Shark coupler? Will it work? The tube I am repairing has a valve stem running through it. see http://www.woodfordmfg.com/Woodford/Wall_Faucet_PDF/22CATALOG.pdf

    I liked the Woodford - worked well. Would rather not replace the whole thing as it cost $84 at https://www.buywcm.com/egl/products/product.asp?item_id=1003695

    Any suggestions where I could get the Woodford model 22 for less?
  14. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,349
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    You're wasting time and effort trying to fix this valve. Get a new one and be done with it. I didn't realize at first that you had cut the valve.
  15. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,636
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    fitting

    A Sharkbite will not work because it has an insert that fits inside the tubing in case it is used with PEX or other plastics and your stem would not go through it. The temperature of the flame is not as important as whether the flame is large enough to heat the entire tube and fitting.
  16. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Messages:
    2,051
    Sharkbite

    "A Sharkbite will not work because it has an insert that fits inside the tubing in case it is used with PEX or other plastics and your stem would not go through it."

    If the OD of the valve stem really is too big for the shark, can you drill out the plastic insert or otherwise remove it?
  17. billmad

    billmad New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I soldered the 3/4" slip coupling - it worked. Thanks for all the comments.
  18. I had a feeling it would work. Back in the day I worked cheap, worked for cheap people and I was able to beat the splits back down flush, sand it real good and solder it up, no leaks. It's not right but it worked back then.

    I'd never attempt that today though, besides I make more money replacing than repairing.

    Ahhh the memories of back in the day of bein' green.
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