Softener drain in crawl space - options?

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by rudhawk, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. rudhawk

    rudhawk In the Trades

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    California
    I really appreciate this site and all the helpful advice – I’ve been researching softener drain options for a couple days but coming up “dryâ€.

    This is the drain setup for my Fleck 5600SXT / 32K which I would like to redo; in the event of a backup, sewage would overflow the air gap into my crawl space.
    IMG_2445.jpg

    I don’t have a utility sink & the washer drain is 50 ft away; Fleck limits a ½“ drain line to 20 ft (I don’t know the limits for a ¾†pvc line).

    On the first floor is a bathroom sink & a kitchen sink which I could get this line to through the floor. But I don’t have a clue how this connection would be made and still use an air gap. How is this done (without opening up the walls); pics or links appreciated.

    Or should I leave the existing (if so, I’m going to reroute it to get rid of the reverse angle entering the main drain).

    thanks everyone
    Pat
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,911
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Run the drain in 3/4" PVC and you can go 50' easily. The 1 cu. ft. system only runs at 2.4 GPM, so 1/2" pipe would probably be just fine, but since you re-running it anyway, 3/4" pipe is cheap and just as easy to do.
  3. rudhawk

    rudhawk In the Trades

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    California
    Thanks, Ditto - I thought it might be fine and I have only 1 foot elevation rise (I would need to go through a couple walls but...).

    I came across this twin inlet "airgap" made by Eco-tech. Does anyone have experience with them? Is this really an airgap or an air vent. Also, I'm wondering if it would handle 2.4 gpm. This would be much more convenient than extending to the washer.
    Twin Inlet Air Gap DLA-TAG Dual Inlet AirGap.jpg
  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,911
    Location:
    Ontario California
    That particular model works great. And whoops, your 32K system probably only flows 2 GPM max to the drain.
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Ya got another whoops in there too, you didn't answer his question of how to use an air gap up at the sink, while having him get rid of his present hook up that looks like a code compliant air gap drain.
  6. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,911
    Location:
    Ontario California
    And that helps him how? Or are you just trolling?
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I suggest he fix any cause of a back up, leave it as it is or get rid of the air gap.
  8. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,911
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Let me make sure I read that right. You are suggesting the home owner plumb the softener drain directly into sewage? Wow, that's great advice. (sarcasm)

    Anybody reading this thread, please do not take the advice of someone who actively promotes disregarding code when it come to our potable municipal water supplies.
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Or you might have assumed I meant the air gap you haven't told him how to install yet.

    Also, although I know how you love to assume, why are you assuming he has city/municipal water?
  10. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,911
    Location:
    Ontario California
    As to how to install the airgap, read post three, I think it is self explanatory.

    As to the comment on the municipal supply, you can cross contaminate your own personal supply, for all I care you can drink from your septic tank, those on shared supplies are where I am personally concerned. Although, I would not recommend anyone other than you cross contaminating potable and sewage.
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I think you're losing it man. Minus the picture of the new air gap, post 3 says.... "Thanks, Ditto - I thought it might be fine and I have only 1 foot elevation rise (I would need to go through a couple walls but...).

    I came across this twin inlet "airgap" made by Eco-tech. Does anyone have experience with them? Is this really an airgap or an air vent. Also, I'm wondering if it would handle 2.4 gpm. This would be much more convenient than extending to the washer."

    I read your replies and can't find you answering his questions.
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ontario California
    Sigh, you must really bo bored.

    Yes, I have extensive experience with them and have found them to be ideal for installations where the kitchen sink or dishwaser is located ideally close to the softener installation. There is also a version specifically for RO systems. it works great too. dishwasher_07.jpg
    It is an air gap, please check out this link, they have a decent definition and some great products for the professional installers. Air gaps are not recommended, they are required! http://www.airgap.com/plumbing_codes.html
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Man.... he asked how to install it!!! And I'd love to hear how you would do that.
  14. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ontario California
    This is called trolling. He has not replied probably because he was asking how to do a code air gap prior to his second post, where he found that a dual inlet dish washer air gap was an excellent and simple solution. Why would he need a dual inlet under the house??? I assume he understands that airgap simply replaces the standard single inlet dishwasher airgap and gives him a second inlet. I doubt he was asking how to install that specific air-gap. You are so desperate to chase me around and reply with a negative to every one of my posts that it is seriously becoming funny. Your self proclaimed ignorance of codes, and your blatant disregard for laws and regulations has really made me laugh today. The simple fact that you would tell someone to not use an airgap in the first place.

    Your reply "I suggest he fix any cause of a back up, leave it as it is or get rid of the air gap." please explain how you get rid of "any cause" of a backup? Drain lines clog, they back up, plumber comes out and fixes. I guess your solution would be to get rid of the drain in general and just let it go under the house. I guess that would work in your case, lol. "get rid of the airgap".. your really going to recommend that? Any real plumbers here agree with that one? Any licensed or qualified people on this site agree?

    FYI, you may want to read some code books, or at least do a little research prior to making comments like that. Here is a simplified version and a good place to start, though there is much more to it than what this site has. http://www.airgap.com/plumbing_codes.html
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,670
    Location:
    IL
    Score one for the zero-waste RO systems: no air gap required.
  16. Smooky

    Smooky Member

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    629
    Location:
    NC
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    LOL, you've lost it man, get a new grip.

    He said nothing about installing it in his crawl space or, anything about a dish washer....

    Here is what he said: "On the first floor is a bathroom sink & a kitchen sink which I could get this line to through the floor. But I don’t have a clue how this connection would be made and still use an air gap. How is this done (without opening up the walls); pics or links appreciated.".

    Now you are assuming he has an air gap on a dish washer. And guessing that he knows how to install the air gap he posted a picture of.

    Usually there are signs that a drain is not flowing as it used to and that says there is a high probably of a future problem. Or if there is an onsite septic system, water on the surface between the house and the septic says there is a problem. Same for grass being greener around the septic than in other areas. Some of that also applies to city sewer, especially the slow down of a sink, toilet, etc..

    I've always been into preventive maintenance rather than waiting until it 'breaks' and then fixing it. And in my many decades of life and owning a number of houses and living in others I didn't own, the only time a plumber was called out was when I wasn't home and the spoiled little girl (her parents were friends of ours) in the upstairs apartment of our apartment house would flush her tampons. And finally, with her mother agreeing, the fourth time in about 18 months and my wife making excuses for her but constantly complaining about it to only me.... out she went.
  18. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,911
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Yawn, dont you ever get tired of trolling?
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