Softener advice - Which option would you choose

Users who are viewing this thread

TedS

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
tampa
Thanks for all the advice. I got the pair of 2510s installed today for $800 total. Turns out one of the 2 controllers/tanks was brand new and as mentioned above the other was 2 months old and looks new.

I know I got a very good deal. Thanks again
 

Tom Sawyer

In the Trades
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
34
Points
48
Location
Maine
Thanks for all the advice. I got the pair of 2510s installed today for $800 total. Turns out one of the 2 controllers/tanks was brand new and as mentioned above the other was 2 months old and looks new.

I know I got a very good deal. Thanks again

You got an excellent deal. Best of luck. Apologies for the side show
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
LOL First you said that you told me they charged you more, which you never said a word, and now you are saying that it was slightly different. You are so full of bullshit.

Yep, I included (ordered) a 50' or 100' roll of 5/8" OD opaque PE drain line, opaque PE brine line, gravel underbed, salt grid, #500 air check, 2310 safety float controlled valve, brine well, little soft water test kit, by pass valve, a pair of combination 3/4" and 1" sch 80 PVC elbow plumbing connectors, only a Structural resin tank, normally a 15" x 17" salt tank unless a space restriction required an 11" x 11' and a service manual. That softener with a Clack WS-1 cost me more than the same softener with a 5600 Mechanical meter or a se or sxt timer. What I didn't tell you was everything I included.

I also spoke to every customer for an hour to an hour and a half usually, and I sized the softener for them, gave them the programming data and had them write it down with other notes, then I sent them very detailed instructions and gobs of pictures of how to unpack, assemble and install the equipment and included the programing data with step by step instructions of how to program. And I sent shipment tracking email.

I set my prices based on my cost + an average shipping cost and a set amount of gross profit and I or my wife took calls for at least 10 hrs per day 6 days a week regardless of where we were across the US. Which pissed my wife off, especially when I answered the phone going down the road in the motor home at 65 mph, or we had planned on going somewhere in the Jeep. And yes, it upset me when dumb asses would call outside my business hours and on Sunday or holidays. I always returned calls. IOWs, I earned what I charged for my products. I also kept notes on calls for years and some people wouldn't buy but would call weeks or years later to order from me. My record was 5.5 yrs after the first call. I also had people call years after receiving their equipment saying they were just getting around to installing it and had a couple questions.
 

Bananaboyandy

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Macungie, PA
Is Clack WS1 vs CMP

I was quoted a price for a Clack CMP valve head...is that the same as a WS1?

If not, which is better?

Getting pricing around $2k to install a CMP-45k system with a Marlo tank...thoughts if that is good?
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
I've never heard of a Clack CMP but... CMP sounds like it may refer to Clack Micro Processor that maybe Marlo has made up to identify a valve they use. Otherwise, there are different versions of the Clack WS1; the original, CS, EE and maybe another one I can't recall. And then there are those made to be proprietary to a number of national brand companies like Hellenbrand, Water-Right/WaterCare, General Osmonics, etc. etc..

If you bought the same size softener online with a Fleck valve you'd probably save over half that 2K. How do you know what size you need? BTW, I doubt Marlo makes tanks.
 

Bananaboyandy

New Member
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Macungie, PA
Gary,

You are right, the description says it is a Marlo CMP Series Water Softener but I was told it is a Clack valve head. I would go with the Fleck based on everything I've read on the forum but I need to find a plumber to do the install as I don't even want to mess with it. Most don't seem to have much experience with Fleck..but not sure if that should matter. Isn't the installation going to be more or less that same with the only real difference being the programming of the valve head?
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Then maybe you should learn how to install and program it yourself or you may end up being unhappy later. In other words, you should become a DIYer or buy locally. Most online dealers provide assembly, installation and programming instructions and you can probably install it without the need to solder.

Yes Fleck and Clack are installed the same way but many/most plumbers sell Autotrol (inlet and outlet are reversed from industry standard Fleck and Clack) and they don't know much about Autotrol but how to install them and basic programming.
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Fleck, Clack, Autotrol, all exceptional quality control valves and the most important part of the system. Any of these three are fine.

I prefer Fleck and Clack over Autotrol, nothing against Autotrol, it just has some design issues that are not ideal that both Fleck and Clack have addressed. DIY plumbing a softener can be easy sometimes, other times it should not be attempted. I have installed thousands of softeners over the past 27 years, and some jobs take 1-2 hours, other jobs take several days. Code compliance issues, tool requirements, trenching, etc, and how much your own time is worth can be big factors as to wether you want to DIY or have a qualified person do it. I will work on my Jeep for days on end, I enjoy ripping out the tranny, tansfer case, rebuilding the rear end etc, but my normal cars, I wont even do the oil change, I let the dealer do the service. Again, it depends on your funds, and what its worth to you.

If you can get the system installed correctly, several people on this site will help you program it as long as you have a proper water test.

I would avoid any of the fake knock off systems that look like Fleck or Clack. These Chinese knock-off valves may have NSF certifications etc, but anybody in this industry knows what that is worth. :)
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Code compliance is not a big factor to you. To most people code compliance is a big issue, especially if you own a house. Selling a house with plumbing, electrical or other code compliance issues is becoming more difficult for good reason. Potential municipal supply contamination, water damage, etc. are a big deal.

I am a DIY'r when it comes to my Jeep, including making my own roll cage. I also took welding classes at the local college since I did not want to die if I rolled my Jeep and my DIY welds did not hold. I think most DIY guys not only want to try to save a little money, but most also want to expand their knowledge and education as part of the DIY projects. DIY water treatment is doable and fun, but some things are a must. Code compliance, water testing, and adequate tools.

Why are you so opposed to plumbing codes and water testing? :)

Speaking of my Jeep, here is a short vidoe for your enjoyment [video=youtube;jyMorvMBCgw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyMorvMBCgw&feature=c4-overview&list=UUL7f2aKKWBuAhzru29_Wv5A[/video]
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
Code compliance is not a big factor to you. To most people code compliance is a big issue, especially if you own a house. Selling a house with plumbing, electrical or other code compliance issues is becoming more difficult for good reason. Potential municipal supply contamination, water damage, etc. are a big deal.
Code compliance? That has not been the subject of this thread up to now, has it?

I think DIY sometimes involves getting around the oligarchy sometimes. I don't see that repairing or even installing your own water softener is not code compliant. It may be called "illegal" work in some jurisdictions because of the politicians, but can't we just call it "undocumented" work? DIY can be code compliant even if it is "illegal" in a place. Right?
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Code Compliance needs to be part of every DIY'r. The compliance issue has more to do with cross contamination due to poorly installed drain lines, people hooking up softeners into fire surpression systems or irrigation, water damage due to poorly installed plumbing components and poorly thought out installation locations. Since we all share the water, there are several codes written to lessen the potential of polluting the water supply. The lack of an air-gap has recently put one of the largest companies into major financial issues after it was found that the lack of an airgap was the likely cause of some major diseases to a household after raw sewage was siphoned into the softener. They are now facing a multi-million dollar lawsuit, they hired a non licensed, non qualified installer to install their equipment. Codes were not followed, kids almost died. So yeah, code compliance can be important.
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
Again, code compliance is not a big factor to most DIYers but...

I see you claiming that a large, I take it national company, didn't do things right. No mention or claim of a DIYer in there as far as I can see. Seems like improper supervising of an employee or at least improper training on the company's part. And that has nothing to do with DIYers.

Tell us how a softener siphons water backwards through it's drain line. How about a link to more info on the lawsuit or news story about that.
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
Find the lawsuit yourself, it is pending in the courts now, I am sure you can figure it out. If you dont know how a softener can siphon water from the drain, then you really need to take a plumbing class.

And code compliance is not imnportant to DIYers... then they should not DIY. Part of DIY is doing it right, to code, expanding your knowledge, and saving some money. It is not so you can ignore health and safety requirements. I would love to see your recommendations on DIY room additions. LOL
 

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
The codes are there for a reason, I could see you draining your houses sewage while your driving down the road flipping the cops off saying it is your right. LOL,

I work with legislators annually to try to minimize regulation when it is intrusive, and I also work to enact legislation when it protects our industry from people like you who would think that cross connections of our potable supply to sewage lines is ok. Sometimes even you surprise me with your ignorance.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks