Soft start pump motors

Users who are viewing this thread

Odysseus99

Member
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
California
Thanks to all for your help as I figure out all the factors involved in a submersible pump choice.

Wondering about soft-start motors. Obviously starting a motor slowly is going to be good for the motor on the long term. I guess it can decrease hammer effect as well. Questions-

-Can soft-start circuitry be easily installed for any pump (in the control box or whatever) or do you have to buy a unit designed and constructed for it? I assume the latter.

-What are the better brands models of soft-start units?

-Advantages/disadvantages/cost of getting soft-start?

I appreciate your time.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,626
Reaction score
1,301
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Actually soft start is not a good thing for submersible pumps. They need to get up to speed very quickly to produce the film of water between the thrust bearing plates. The longer it takes to start, the more wear on the thrust bearing.

A Cycle Stop Valve will give you a mechanical soft start and soft stop, which eliminates any water hammer without slowing the start up RPM of the pump/motor.
 

Odysseus99

Member
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
California
Thanks Valveman. I'm pumping to a storage tank, no pressure tank. Will a CSV help in such a setup? Where should I put it.

No float switch or auto shutoff. Just run the generator until it's full or close.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
Actually soft start is not a good thing for submersible pumps. They need to get up to speed very quickly to produce the film of water between the thrust bearing plates. The longer it takes to start, the more wear on the thrust bearing.

A Cycle Stop Valve will give you a mechanical soft start and soft stop, which eliminates any water hammer without slowing the start up RPM of the pump/motor.

Not to be smart, but you often mention using downsize wires to give that 'soft' start - maybe you could call it a 'slower' start? . I know a true soft start is designed for very large 3 phase motors and it really is a step up slow go. Also, as to a three wire motor, those smaller wires might defeat the better start torque need in grit. You mentioned earlier using a large HP control box to try and get a stuck motor started. Interesting to me that Franklin 'deluxe' control boxes, with or without the contactor, are rated 1 OR 1.5 HP. Probably just a 1.5 box that gives the smaller motor a bigger kick.

So to answer ody99's question above, I don't know of any soft starter for less than a 5 HP 3 phase motor. And I don't think anyone would put it on a well pump. More for a shredder or a oil well pump.

At least for Valveman, here is an intriguing link: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=256819 It is about the failure of a kingsbury bearing in a huge submersible pump.One poster says the motor must be up to 1/2 speed within 2-3 seconds for preservation of water or oil film.
And most interesting as to the CSV, it is said that the best situation for the bearing is to start against a closed outlet. Interesting that the pump that failed, [the point of the thread] was being started against a 20% closed outlet. Also they discuss the manufacturers insistence that there be intermediate check valves - a source of much debate here in this forum. Mfg. insisting that it preserves the thrust bearing. INteresting!

Finally some amazing trivia:

Success of the Kingsbury bearing[edit]
Kingsbury would eventually run his own business with the Westinghouse Machine Co. building his bearings.[2] This allowed him to actively pursue applications for his newly patented thrust bearing. His first chance came when the Pennsylvania Water and Power Co. gave him the opportunity to demonstrate his bearing on their power generator at the Susquehanna River.

His first bearing was a failure as it was immediately destroyed by Babbitt wiping.[2] Fortunately for Kingsbury, the Pennsylvania Water and Power Co. gave him a second chance. His bearing succeeded this time, and worked flawlessly for the next 25 years. When it was inspected after 25 years, there was so little evidence of wear that it was calculated that the bearing would last 1,300 to 1,700 years.[2] The same bearing is still operating smoothly today.[4]
 
Last edited:

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,626
Reaction score
1,301
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Thanks Valveman. I'm pumping to a storage tank, no pressure tank. Will a CSV help in such a setup? Where should I put it.

No float switch or auto shutoff. Just run the generator until it's full or close.

No you really do not need a CSV on a well pump that just feeds a cistern storage tank. But, if the well is a low producer you may want a Cycle Sensor to protect it from dry run.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,626
Reaction score
1,301
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
One poster says the motor must be up to 1/2 speed within 2-3 seconds for preservation of water or oil film.
And most interesting as to the CSV, it is said that the best situation for the bearing is to start against a closed outlet. Interesting that the pump that failed, [the point of the thread] was being started against a 20% closed outlet. Also they discuss the manufacturers insistence that there be intermediate check valves - a source of much debate here in this forum. Mfg. insisting that it preserves the thrust bearing. INteresting!

If it takes 2-3 seconds for the pump to get to 50% speed, that is 2-3 seconds that the bearing will be running dry. A submersible really needs to get to 50% speed in 1 second or less. Reduced voltage starts, as with the smaller wire do not reduce the time it takes to start, just the torque available. You can still do the jump start thing with a larger control box. It will still have some voltage loss, but starts with a higher voltage capacitor, so you still get higher voltage to the motor.

Yes starting a pump against a closed or almost closed valve is best. But multiple check valves can keep the pump from seeing the closed valve on top. If the bottom check closes slower than the upper check, or leaks back a tiny bit, the pump will be starting without restriction. Then when the water in the column crashes into the upper check, the resulting water hammer can actually break a thrust bearing.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks