small powder room, 4.5' wide by 4.0' deep

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by greyhound1, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. greyhound1

    greyhound1 New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Greetings from a newbie.

    Background: I'm redoing the powder room which is small (4.5' wide by 4.0' deep). I have a 19" wide wall mounted sink (17" deep) with about 2 1/2" of space to the wall (to the right of the sink as you face it). My present toilet is about 26" to 27" deep from the back wall (I took off the tank and discarded it before I measured it). The toilet is to the left of the sink as you face it. I do not want to re-size the room or move the plumbing.

    I just read a forum topic on Toto toilets today. I was impressed with what Terry said about the Toto Guinevere model. My question is two fold: Do you think the Guinevere would be too big; and Can anyone recommend a small pedestal or wall mounted sink that would match with the Guinevere toilet? Unfortunately, the Guinevere pedestal sink is too wide. I like the design of the Guinevere and the other attributes that I read in the spec sheet. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (I don't know if it's common to mix and match sinks and toilets with new renovations). By the way, I like the Kohler iron works lavatory (k-28822-1W) but it may be too pricey. I'm wondering if the white colors match?

    Thanks
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The Guinevere would be about 29" from the wall to the end of the bowl.
    That leaves 19" in front of the bowl.

    The Whites are pretty close, not not perfect.

    Four feet wide is pretty narrow. Most codes would call for 30" and 30"
    Though I've seen old bathrooms that used 24" and 24"
    I don't know where they put their arms.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,835
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    toilet

    The distance from the toilet opening to the side of the lavatory will determine whether a toilet will work, regardless of the space between the sink and the wall, because the tank cannot be wider than twice that distance.
  4. greyhound1

    greyhound1 New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    messed up on reporting dimensions!

    I apologize for the following faux pas: My powder room is 4 feet deep and 4.5 feet wide. I reversed the numbers above. Any changes to your thoughts?
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I lived in one home that was 47" deep in the Master bath.
    It worked, tight though.

    Your knees are in the same place whether you have a round or an elongated bowl.
  6. SliderJeff

    SliderJeff DIY Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Houston TX
    Terry,

    Based on your knee comment above, is there any other reason to choose round over elongated other than aesthetics?

    Thanks,
    Jeff
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The only reason to go with round, is to save some money, or the room is tiny.

    The round or regular bowl was never a good idea.
  8. SliderJeff

    SliderJeff DIY Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Houston TX
    Thank you, sir!

    Regards,
    Jeff
  9. CindyJ

    CindyJ Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I realize this is an old post, but -- could you explain, please? I just assumed that if the bowl extends further, as an elongated bowl does, your knees would extend further, too.
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,898
    Location:
    New York, NY
    One's behind is planted in basically the same place in a round or an elongated version of the same model. Put another way, the distance between one's back and the front of the tank is the same in either model. The elongated bowl puts china underneath more of the person, but the person is sitting in the same place.
  11. CindyJ

    CindyJ Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Okay, I get it. But the "stand up, turn around" space is reduced with an elongated bowl. Is that correct?
  12. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,898
    Location:
    New York, NY
    A little, yes. The china protrudes more into the room. By an inch or two with respect to the toilets we are discussing, I think. I frankly don't think it's a huge deal. Maybe you can take a box (or other item) about the height of the bowl and put it where the round would protrude to and then to where the elongated would protrude to, by measuring from the wall. That might help you imagine better whether it's a big deal. You can walk around both, stand in front of both, etc. Remember to add the 3/4" off-the-wall distance to the measurement you are making.
  13. CindyJ

    CindyJ Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    In my space, which measures only 43", every inch counts.
  14. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,898
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Oh, I know. I have been following the thread. But I think you don't get a real sense of how important or unimportant it is until you mock it up, which is a very useful thing to do when you have a concern like this.
  15. CindyJ

    CindyJ Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm trying to keep the new toilet "footprint" approximately the same as the existing one. I don't need to "mock it up" because I have the actual space to work with.
  16. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,898
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Sorry. Tough love time...

    You have some 20 posts on here asking a bunch of questions that would be answered if you took a tape measure, some tape and cardboard, and the spec sheets of the toilets in question and made a crude 3-dimensional mockup of just the last 6 inches of the thing, then placed it on the floor at the point where the round bowl ends and then again where the pointier elongated ends. You can tell right away what the difference will be.

    Professionals do this all the time because until you can see it, you're going to agonize about dimensions that are meaningless in real-world applications.

    You don't want to do a mockup, fine. But you can ask over and over and you're going to get the same answer from anyone who is telling you the truth: the elongated is better, the Toto is far superior to the Kohler, and only you will know whether that inch or two difference makes a difference, and the only way to know that short of buying both the round and the elongated toilets and returning one after you dry-fit them on the floor is to just mock-up where each will protrude to.

    If you don't have the spec sheets already, I will be happy to posts links to the spec sheets in question.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
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