Small bathroom, Big problems

Discussion in 'Remodel Forum & Blog' started by tgillson, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. tgillson

    tgillson New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Hi, new to the forum.... nice to meet everyone. Unfortunately, I'm the guy who asks for help after just meeting you.

    First the blah, blah.... I've got a new 1920's house which I gutted the 2nd floor. I also gutted the bathroom on the 2nd floor, lots o fun. I figured I would just replace what I took out in terms of plumbing. It couldn't be that easy, could it? No, I've repaired hacked, split floor joists, reframed the walls, dry fitted some pipes.

    Now the problem. I'm not a plumber. Also the way things are sitting, I will have water sitting in the DWV pipes. The soil stack (cast iron) is sitting flush with the floor joists, the vent stack is sitting 5/8" lower than that, the drain pipe for toilet/bath is sloped away from soil stack 1/2"(the toilet flange is sitting on a 2x4 flat to simulate subfloor, mud bed, tile). But everything worked for 86 years with it that way.

    The solution? I don't know, thats where you guys come in. I put way too much work into the house to burn down now. I am not against hiring a plumber, but would rather do the work myself. I just need an educated hand. What would you guys do or suggest?

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2006
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    The picture and the text produced a screen too wide to be seen in one screen. I have tried to fix that, attached the photo, and copied your text below (somewhat edited to maintain the substance). I hope it works.

    I will leave the plumbing suggestions to the Master Plumbers who visit this site.

    It looks like you have virtually destroyed the structural support. You may have to rebuild the floor structure with enough depth to support your planned renovation and provide enough depth for the plumbing. If you go to the following link http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php you will find that you need a pretty good structure to support tile.

    Attached Files:

  3. tgillson

    tgillson New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Thanks for the formatting Bob.
    The floor joists, will all get tied together with cross bracing and the damaged joist will be sistered properly once I finalize the DWV plumbing. Structure wont be an issue but I need the plumbing done first. But can you believe that builders would chop up the floor joists like that? And that the original tile was still in tact and only with hairline cracks too.
    The issue is whether I can use different fittings, or something like cutting down the vent stack to raise that elbow or anything else to get the minimum slope to the soil stack. Also any other plumbing concerns seen by a professional eye.
    I really dont want to open the main floor wall to lower the soil stack. So any other ideas would be preferred.
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I don't know what else you can do, other than use thicker floor joists or plumb under the floor and box it out.

    Many older homes used 2x8's for some reason.

    Most newer construction will have 2x10's when plumbing is being used.

    A 3" pipe is 3.5" on the outside.
    If you have 2" under the pipe, and 2" above the pipe, that makes 7.5"

    With a 2x8, there is no way to add grade.
    Even a 2x10 only allows 8 feet of pipe with grade.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,247
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    layout

    If a plumber came in, he might just throw everything away and start from scratch, beginning with that "illegal" and unapproved Ferco coupling over the hub of the 90 elbow. They are not approved for use inside a building and no inspector would allow one to be used that way even if they were. In fact it might be part of your problem because it will not keep the pipe centered on the fitting, but will allow it to drop and create a potential obstruction point. Whether that is the best piping arrangement or not depends on the entire structure's layout and we cannot tell that without being there. But that one is not the ideal one, unless it is absolutely the only way to do it.
  6. tgillson

    tgillson New Member

    Messages:
    4
    As for the ferco rubber coupler/reducer, what else can I do? If I cut/drill/smash the elbow off the soil stack will I be able to find a ABS elbow to thread back on?
    If I were to re-assemble, and don't have it sloping to the soil stack, will it work? As it was/is, the vent and toilet sit 1/2" lower than level with the soil stack.
    I don't want hack job plumbing, but don't want to have a 2" transition from the hardwood in the hall to the tile of the bathroom.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2006
  7. sulconst2

    sulconst2 New Member

    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    old bridge nj
    not knowing the stucture or if you even have a basement or the layout of the bathroom, but ill give it a shot. cut it all out. get a new 3" main down the wall to the right of the far floor bay into basement with vtr, assuming you have pitch to connect in basement. sister your joists well, its your house. run 3" to the toilet with a 3 x 3 x 2 wye to shower (1 1/2" for a tub) drilled thru 1 joist. sink should be that way ( i guess ) grab thru the wall. vent up as you go. sure there are lots of obstructions in the way but imagine if there wasn't.
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