Slow leak discovered where toilet flange meets drain

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javedikian

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We heard water dripping inside the ds closet and found (after removing the soggy drywall) that the toilet flange above it was leaking water at the joint with the drain pipe. I dried the pipe and watched and felt the water bead up and drip from the joint. It was definitely not coming from the wax seal and the subfloor was dry.

So my first question is if the toilet wasn't being used and not losing water, how could there be water so high up the pipe? Is that normal? I drained the toilet and used air from the shop vac to push any water below the leak and that stopped it. So my next question is do I have to cut out this whole thing and drop in a new one to fix the joint or is there a patch solution?

The leak is on the left side in the photo.

image.jpg
 

Terry

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Once a joint is bad there is no solution but to cut it out and start over.
I have something similar last week on a closet bend. You will need to pull the bowl, and start over with a new flange.
 

FullySprinklered

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You said it's leaking even when not being used?
Make sure you're working on the right problem. I see water stains on the wood in a couple of places, so feel around behind the toilet bowl and the connection between the bowl and tank to make sure it's not trickle-down from a bad connection up there.
 

javedikian

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Once a joint is bad there is no solution but to cut it out and start over.
I have something similar last week on a closet bend. You will need to pull the bowl, and start over with a new flange.
OK, I'll make that part of this project.
 

javedikian

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You said it's leaking even when not being used?
Make sure you're working on the right problem. I see water stains on the wood in a couple of places, so feel around behind the toilet bowl and the connection between the bowl and tank to make sure it's not trickle-down from a bad connection up there.
I'll double check that but the floor and grout were not wet. I think those stains may be old. Before we bought the house, the bathroom only had carpet. So any overflows would have leaked more through the floor. The water was trickeling down the otherside of the pipe away from the wood beam. I just don't understand how water can be that high in the pipe? We did have a major rain stome the night before (which is what I thought the initial problem was) but I doubt that much water could come down the vent pipe. I'm wondering if there is also a clog downstream?
 

javedikian

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Once a joint is bad there is no solution but to cut it out and start over.
I have something similar last week on a closet bend. You will need to pull the bowl, and start over with a new flange.
The joint is 20 years old. Is it unusual for it to go bad?
 

Jadnashua

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FWIW, sometimes, they forget to actually cement the joint! Since the joint is an interference one (the socket is tapered, and the bottom of it is smaller than the OD of the pipe), it only can fit fully when there's enough cement applied to melt the plastic and that also lubricates it so you can insert the pipe into the socket. If they tried to dry fit the pipe in, they may not have been able to get it out to then glue it in place, and just left it. From your picture, I cannot tell if they used the primer/cleaner prior to cementing the joints. While they make a clear primer, many places want you to use the purple stuff so that they can tell that you used the primer - with the clear, it's nearly impossible to verify during inspection. The primer is an important step in making a proper joint with pvc.

But, water can be sneaky and flow a ways before it shows up.

If the toilet flushes properly, it is unlikely that there's a clog in the pipe as that would slow or stop the flush. It can happen if it is a slow leak past the clog, and it has drained enough for all of the waste from the flush to exit, but because it would be trying to compress the trapped air, you'd still probably notice it was not flushing properly.
 

Terry

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"I drained the toilet and used air from the shop vac to push any water below the leak and that stopped it"

If you have a leaking flapper, then you will have water constantly.
It's when you shut the water off and removed water from the toilet that the water leak stopped.

You can put it back in use and see if the problem has gone away before you decide what to do next.
I would not rule out a leaking flapper and a bad seal yet. But if you are "seeing" water from the joint, and not around the flange.............well.
 

Reach4

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So my first question is if the toilet wasn't being used and not losing water, how could there be water so high up the pipe? Is that normal? I drained the toilet and used air from the shop vac to push any water below the leak and that stopped it. So my next question is do I have to cut out this whole thing and drop in a new one to fix the joint or is there a patch solution?
Very much not normal.

If it is as you described, you would have a clogged drain pipe. Since the clog was not there before, nobody would have noticed a tiny leak if the system was not pressure tested. However if that was the case, the toilet would not flush right, and you would have said that.

So it seems that you simply emptied the bowl giving your slow leak into the bowl a place to not overflow the weir for a while. You have to pursue the toilet fix that Terry described.

Regarding that leak, I am not a pro. As such, after fixing the clog, I might clean and dry the area with a hair drier being careful to not melt the PVC. I would then use some slow setting epoxy at the joint from inside. I might build a little dam with packing tape. After inserting the glue, I would push the packing tape flush using nitrile gloves It might be successful. It might not be. I would spend a few hours doing it. If that did not work, I would next try something equally disreputable from the basement.

Or call a plumber. Probably have everything reputably fixed in an hour.
 
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Terry

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Regarding that leak, I am not a pro. As such, after fixing the clog, I might clean and dry the area with a hair drier being careful to not melt the PVC. I would then use some slow setting epoxy at the joint from inside. I might build a little dam with packing tape. After inserting the glue, I would push the packing tape flush using nitrile gloves It might be successful. It might not be. I would spend a few hours doing it. If that did not work, I would next try something equally disreputable below.

We would never waste time like that on a bad joint. Once the joint is bad, it only gets worse. You may only be fixing the tip of the iceberg. I can replace the entire fitting in less time than it takes to fudge around with it.
 

javedikian

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Thanks everyone. Correct, there have been no issues flushing the toilet although my son is very good a clogging it. I will refill the tank only and see if the leak returns. I figured I'd hear the refilling if it was leaking.
 

Reach4

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Mark the water level in the tank with pencil. Check back in a couple hours or so. Maybe it does not drop enough between uses to refill, but might still be detectible with careful level monitoring.
 

javedikian

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Well, filled the tank and the drip started right away. I have the Kohler canister and the seal to the bowl is totally deteriorated. My son confirmed he hears the water turn on. So two part problem. Fix the seal and put in a new flange.
 
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