skirted drake? and toilets 101?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by susiemw, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. susiemw

    susiemw New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Indiana
    Hi all,

    I'm sure I read on this forum that you could get the Drake in a skirted model but
    when I look on the toto site I can't find the skirted version.
    Am I mistaken?

    I'm redoing a small cottage bathroom that has/had the original baby blue sink and bathtub!

    I'm looking for a reasonably priced, reliable, skirted toilet and from what I've read here
    the Drake seems to fit the bill. Preferably elongated and NOT ADA height. I hate tall
    toilets where my feet can't be flat on the ground.

    The "look" needs to be something that will fit
    in with a claw foot tub (I lucked out finding an almost new i.e. only used 4 times
    kohler claw foot tub http://www.us.kohler.com/us/catalog/productDetails.jsp?productId=415826)
    and pedestal sink so nothing too modern.

    I really like the $7,000 model on the toto site but it's a bit out of my means :)

    Who knew there was so much to know about toilets! Is there by any chance
    a Toilets 101 thread around here someplace? If so, please point me in the
    right direction.

    I appreciate the recommendations on here for the set rite flange extender kit.
    New flooring has made it so that this will be required!

    I'm not sure if it matters but in case it does, the water supply line comes up out
    of the floor and is 6 1/2 inches from the wall and is 4 3/4 "to the left of the center of the drain.
    There are 15 1/2 " from the wall to the center of the drain hole.

    Susan
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,296
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    You have two problems to deal with. The first is the 15-1/2" rough-in. Standard rough-in for toilets (all brands) is 12". Sometimes floor joist location will force this distance to be changed. Sometimes less than 12", sometimes more. Now, this problem can be overcome with one of the Toto models that use their patented Unifit adapter. This adapter comes in 3 sizes: 10", 12", and 14". These are skirted toilets which conceal these adapters. So, using a 14" adapter would set the toilet reasonably close to the wall. Toto is the only company that makes these adapters. The next problem may not be as easily solved. Elongated bowls in the old "standard" height are sometimes difficult to find. The higher sizes called Comfort Height and the slightly higher yet, ADA are more common. If you will follow the link at the top of this page called "Toilet Review" then "Shopping" and finally "Toto" you will find a listing of most of the Toto toilets that are available along with the specifications for each. Comfort Height and ADA height are approximately the same as a standard dining room chair, so that might give you a frame of reference. The water supply out of the floor will not be a problem, not exactly as specified, but workable. As far as Toilets 101 is concerned, the best I can suggest is just to go through the hundreds of threads under this section of the forum, and then ask questions. Keep in mind, that all low flow toilets are not the same. There are really cheap pieces of junk sold in discount houses that are a total waste of time and money. The name brands of years past do not have the same quality as they did in the past. Toto is the largest manufacturer of toilets in the world and have achieved this mostly by word of mouth and recommendations from plumbers. Early low flow toilets were mostly attempts to use old designs with less water and that of course, didn't work well at all and gave low flow a bad reputation. Toto started differently by redesigning. Where old line companies tried fancy flushing systems, Toto uses basic innards that are available everywhere.
  3. Cameron Fields

    Cameron Fields Implementer/Inventor

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks I was looking for the same thing it makes sense what you said above, my neighbor is a toto fanatic and wants the skirted model.

    Me two :)
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  4. susiemw

    susiemw New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Indiana
    Nothing about this cottage is standard.... I think it started out as a one room fishing shack that got added on to a few times. Whoever "built" it did it by gosh and by golly.
    I'm glad toto makes the adaptors. I'll go read up on them.

    Thanks for such a quick reply!

    Susan
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,801
    Location:
    New England
    The Vespin or Vespin II are very similar to the Drake and Drake II (I have a Vespin) and is one model that uses the UniFit adapter. With that rough-in, if you can't move it, the Vespin with the 14" unifit would still have about 2+" of space behind it, but that shouldn't be a major factor. Better than 4+" with a stock 12" rough toilet, though. If you want to save money on the toilet, move the rough-in to 12", then you won't have to buy the 14" adapter (it comes with a 12" one, and no, you get no credit for not using it!).
  6. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,756
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I think you're going to have a tough time getting the original Vespin CST764S, which has been basically-discontinued. There are some floating around out there in Ebony at a very high price, but maybe you can get lucky and find one through a local plumbing supply. That seems to fit your bill as being basically a skirted original Drake, at a non-ADA height.

    The Vespin II is very nice, and, I think, a classic look, but you may differ as to whether it fits with your clawfoot tub. Others that use the Unifit that might look good are a bit more expensive: Carlyle II, Soiree, etc. Have a look at the styles in Terry's list of toilets above. He doesn't show the whole current Toto line, but he does show a lot of it.
  7. susiemw

    susiemw New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Indiana
    Bummer, I like the look of the aquia and nexus but they don't take the unifit. The last toilet much have been 4" from the wall so I guess I could
    just do that again. Sure wish someone would have mentioned moving the toilet flange so I could have considered doing that before having
    my new floor installed. argghhh.
  8. susiemw

    susiemw New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Indiana

    Thanks for the suggestions. You are right the vespin 1 is close. the soiree is doable but certainly doesn't look like anything special :) The Vespin II might do the trick.
    Never having been through a renovation before I can't believe how much time I'm spending look at toilets (and every other single purchase!). I appreciate the help.
  9. susiemw

    susiemw New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Indiana
    Does the unifit work with any other brand of toilets?
  10. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,296
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    The Unifit works only on select Toto models. The ones that use the adapter have skirted bases. These toilets' undersides are exactly the same. The different rough-in distances are accomplished by using the appropriate adapter. If you go through the Toilet threads, you will find some illustrations of these. Regarding you thoughts about changing the rough-in. It very probably would not have been possible due to the floor joists. Floor joists can not be changed as these support the floor. Usually when the rough-in is at an odd spacing, it was done because of the joist being in the way.
  11. suceress

    suceress New Member

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    LA
    You can select things in the search-- such as ONLY skirted models. I'm looking at it right now.
    Skirted models:
    TOTO AQUIA CST414M. MaP score 800. bowl height 15 1/4". Discontinued
    TOTO VESPIN CST764SG bowl height 15". customer rating Discontinued
    TOTO CARROLLTON CST774S bowl height 15".
    TOTO NEXUS CST794SF bowl height 16 1/8". Discontinued
    TOTO PACIFICA CST804S bowl height 15". Discontinued
    TOTO CARLYLE MS874114SG MaP score 625. bowl height 15". Discontinued
    TOTO CAROLINA MS884114 bowl height 15". Discontinued
    TOTO DORIAN MS914114 bowl height 15". Discontinued

    I left out ones that were over $1,000 on the price list and ones that were ADA height.

    You can look up some of the ones on the list at terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2013
  12. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,756
    Location:
    New York, NY
    That web site seems not to have been updated in a while, as some of those models are discontinued and are going to be hard to find, while newer models (like the Carlyle II, Vespin II, etc., aren't shown). The www.totousa.com web site has a comprehensive list, but could use some work in terms of ability to sort the models. If you go there, realize that the list prices shown should be multiplied by roughly .6 to get a ballpark of what they actually sell for.
  13. suceress

    suceress New Member

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    LA
    Ahh. Thanks for that explanation, wjcandee. It's a pity that the site isn't updated, because it has very useful information right next to images of the product.
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,754
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    My multiplier is more like .7
    And my stuff is perfect here in the Seattle area.
    It hasn't been dropped or banged around in shipping.

    Speaking of which, Sue ordered an HP printer, which arrived with some damage to the box. Yeah..........didn't work. We packed it back up and sent it back. The replacement came in a good box, and that one worked. So I guess printers can suffer the same fate as porcelain when the drivers get their hands on em.
  15. suceress

    suceress New Member

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    LA
    Oops. Thanks for marking the discontinued ones, Terry. Bummer that so many are discontinued. Didn't realize that site was a problem since it had measurements and such. LOL. Looks like the Carrollton is the only one left out of the skirted ones on that site.

    What are the newer models still available that are skirted?

    Sorry to hear about your printer. I hate ordering mechanical stuff online/via mail for that reason.
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,801
    Location:
    New England
    Toto has updated the bowl wash on most of the original toilets that used the Unifit...just look for the II version.
  17. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,756
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Just one note: although the Nexus may have been discontinued, it is still shown on the Toto web site and it's still widely-available out there in all colors. I think that given the great customer-acceptance that the Aquia has experienced, I would probably choose it over the Nexus, although the Nexus does look cool.

    The Aimes MS626214cefg also takes the Unifit, and it's generally-available as well, although not cheap, and looks a little like the two you like, although chunkier.

    Carlyle II, Vespin II, Carolina II, Soiree, Eco Lloyd, and some others.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  18. susiemw

    susiemw New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Indiana
    I had no idea it would be so hard to find a showroom that has some of these toilets so I could see them
    in person. I've been calling showrooms from Indianapolis to Chicago to Ann Arbor Michigan.

    Does everyone just buy their toilets sight unseen?

    I've been able to find 1 local showroom with the Drake so I could see the tank that the Vespin uses.

    None of the showrooms have the Vespin 2 (within 2-3 hours of me). One had the tank but not the bowl. LOL.

    I did find a Vespin 1 in a show room about 3 hours northeast of me.
    I did find a Pacifica that is in a bathroom in a plumbing supply place 2 to 3 hours (depending on traffic) west of me so
    I could at least see a Pacifica before making a purchase.
    the showrooms couldn't be in the same direction!! :)

    I was originally looking for a nonADA height toilet but had given up on that but the lady said they'd probably sell
    me the Vespin 1 off the showroom floor.

    Any words of wisdom on choosing between the pacifica (which I can find online) and the Vespin 1 and vespin 2?

    They all take the unifit which I need with a 15.5" rough in.
    The water supply line comes up through the floor and is 5.5 " left of center, 6" out from the wall.
    I believe the vespin will work with this set up. Does anyone know if the Pacifica will work with this set up?

    Any idea why the pacifica was discontinued? From the pics I've see online it's a nice looking toilet.

    Susan

    edited to add: I just found a showroom in East Dundee with not only the Vespin 2 but some of the other
    toto toilets that take the unifit as well. I'm off to Chicago.
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  19. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    There's a Toto sign in a local plumbing showroom window in the Detroit, MI area but I have no idea what exactly they have on the floor. Look here: http://www.hlclaeys.com/
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  20. susiemw

    susiemw New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Indiana
    Vespin 2 purchased today. Yea. One thing checked off the to do list.
    They didn't have the unifit so they will either order it or I"ll find that online.

    Thanks everyone.

    Susan
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