Significant Chronic Plumbing Issues Need a Fix

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J G

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I moved into a home in October so it has only been 6 months. Unfortunately, it has been 6 months of chronic plumbing issues.

The 1st time I had an issue, I noticed my cats were fixated on a closet I have in my basement. I went over to see what was so fascinating and in this closet is my main drainage line and it was leaking where the cap goes onto the cleanout. I realized if I ran ANY water in any sink of the house, or flushed a toilet it would leak out of that cap. So I had a plumber come out, main drainage line stoppage, they snaked the line and cleared it and said they would then send out a camera guy to look for any problems. Also he tightened the cap on the drainage line so that it would no longer leak like that.

Before the camera guy could come out things clogged up again, and this time I was taking a shower and noticed that the tub all the sudden wasn't draining and the toilet was gurgling. I obviously knew something wasn't right but didn't realize until I went down to the basement that now water was pouring out of my ceiling and down the wall. This was coming from my master bath right above, and down into the basement. This current problem SEEMED to only affect the master bath and not the entire house this time. The camera showed calcification in the line but not anything significant really. The plumber said it was one spot really at the bend of the pipes that he saw the calcification and it was down into the main drainage line, not in the pipes leading from my toilet to the main line. And he said I needed to get my lines jetted. This never made sense to me though, it seems this problem only affected the 1 bath, so it would seem the problem can't be in the main drainage line. Otherwise it would affect the entire house wouldn't it?

I didn't want to spend $1600 for this jetting especially since I didn't believe that little bit of calcification could cause this problem. They had warned me the water efficient toilets I had are bad for the systems, so I actually bought and installed a new toilet that wasn't the fancy efficient kind. I of course use minimal toilet paper and don't flush anything else down especially with this many problems I am VERY careful.

But after yet another clog, but this time the sewage came up through a bathroom I had in the basement and flooded the basement. I had to call insurance to get a restoration team in and get carpets ripped out etc. It was awful, I thought well I have no choice I have to jet the lines I can't keep doing this.

I paid this money got my lines jetted, they then ran a camera back down the lines to show me it was all clear. They found no defects, no tree roots.... they said my pipes didn't look in bad shape and did NOT need replaced.... NOTHING. Then last night I was showering and my tub backed up. I immediately turned off my shower and RAN to the basement to see if the toilet was overflowing again.. and it wasn't! BUT water was pouring out of the ceiling and down the walls again!

So I called this plumber back as they guaranteed their work and they had told me if I jetted the lines I would no longer have this issue. Now I have to have insurance come out AGAIN and rip out drywall and replace the ceiling and walls! It is a disaster and I can't keep going through this.

I am desperate what could be causing this? The plumber came back today and literally just flushed the toilet once and said he had no idea. He says I would rip up your front yard and replace all your pipes. But yet they said my pipes were fine so why on earth would I do that?
He said I shouldn't use charmin toilet paper that this could be causing the problem. I find this hard to believe that this could be the entire problem, I have used charmin for a decade or more in multiple houses and never had this problem before.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated? Thank you
 

Reach4

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Are you the lowest house on the street or is your basement the lowest basement? Perhaps it is a problem with the neighborhood

That could explain the basement flooding but not the water pouring out of your ceiling. To me it sounds like something must be clogged.

Efficient toilets will not cause your problems. Makes me suspicious of their assessments. It sounds like you need a second opinion inspection. Maybe if you identify where you are, somebody might offer a suggestion.

I am not a plumber or anything close.
 

Craigpump

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Obviously there shouldn't be water cascading out of the ceilings, so it seems your plumber is overlooking a DWV issue behind the Sheetrock.

Was this house ever remodeled?
 

hj

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It appears that the plumbers are more interested in getting money from you than finding out what the REAL problem was in the first place and fixing that. I suppose there are companies that charge $1.600.00 for a jetting job, but they also probably are not looking for repeat customers.
 

Terry

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It appears you have a blockage somewhere on the second floor master plumbing line.
To compound that, there is a way for water to leak through the ceiling. Normally if the plumbing is intact, the system should be tight. It may be that the toilet seal needs replacing, as a possible source of the leak, though if the line is clear and running, you wouldn't normally have it show up like that. A tub draining would never get as high as the floor level if the line was clear.

Have they snaked the line from the Master toilet down to the basement?

I have seen salt deposits inside pipes that will close things down pretty badly. There are the "if it's yellow, let it mellow" folks out there that can ruin a toilet in three years with all the salt deposits. Sometimes we need to chip out and vacuum the toilet drain before we reset the new bowl.

And then there is the line to the steet to worry about. I'm not real sure your guys are helping you much.
That being said, it's your home that's being worked on. A previous homeowner left you with some issues that need fixing.

And your guy is correct, get rid of the Charmin. The stuff doesn't break down at all.
If you need to get clean, use a Washet, and perhaps the Costco TP
You will wind up using less paper, be cleaner, have less sewer line issues, and like it a lot better.
http://terrylove.biz/home/105-toto-b200-washlet.html

b200_s5.jpg
 
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J G

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Well my best guess, although I am NOT a plumber either. Is that it is the main drainage system again, and the only reason it comes out of the ceiling is that as it backs up the seal to the toilet isn't good and it overflows and then leaks through the floor and down and that is why I have that. And the ONE time it didn't do that it came up through the toilet in the basement maybe the seal was better then. Because every time they check my house they pull the toilet to snake or run cameras... and so the seal is changed all the time.

So that is my explanation for why sometimes it is leaking down from the main floor to the basement and why one time it came up through the basement toilet, which is what you expect for a main drain stoppage is the lowest point the water floods up.

But what doesn't make sense is WHAT is causing this chronic clog of my main line. It has been professionally snaked 4-5 times now, they have run a camera down the line 3 times by 3 different people. 2 were with this company and 1 was with a 3rd party this company uses for the hydro jetting. And everyone swears the line is clear, there is no defect, no roots in the line etc.

So with 3 times a camera and 3 people looking if it isn't the pipe what on earth is it?

I am on a hill, and near the bottom of the hill but I am NOT the house at the very bottom of the hill. I am 1 up from the bottom. I haven't seen them having plumbers in and out like I have for 6 months. So I am not sure if that helps with any clues or not?

Thanks for replying :)
Obviously there shouldn't be water cascading out of the ceilings, so it seems your plumber is overlooking a DWV issue behind the Sheetrock.

Was this house ever remodeled?

I am not sure what DWV is?
But yes this house was foreclosed on and then flipped and I bought it after it was remodeled
 

J G

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It appears you have a blockage somewhere on the second floor master plumbing line.
To compound that, there is a way for water to leak through the ceiling. Normally if the plumbing is intact, the system should be tight. It may be that the toilet seal needs replacing, as a possible source of the leak, though if the line is clear and running, you wouldn't normally have it show up like that. A tub draining would never get as high as the floor level if the line was clear.

Have they snaked the line from the Master toilet down to the basement?

I have seen salt deposits inside pipes that will close things down pretty badly. There are the "if it's yellow, let it mellow" folks out there that can ruin a toilet in three years with all the salt deposits. Sometimes we need to chip out and vacuum the toilet drain before we reset the new bowl.

And then there is the line to the steet to worry about. I'm not real sure your guys are helping you much.
That being said, it's your home that's being worked on. A previous homeowner left you with some issues that need fixing.

And your guy is correct, get rid of the Charmin. The stuff doesn't break down at all.
If you need to get clean, use a Washet, and perhaps the Costco TP
You will wind up using less paper, be cleaner, have less sewer line issues, and like it a lot better.
http://terrylove.biz/home/105-toto-b200-washlet.html


They have run a snake down the line from the master toilet down through to the street several times, 121 feet or something. That is when they said that I needed the jetting of the lines. They never find a blockage, it isn't like the snake pulls up a ton of toilet paper or things that shouldn't be down there like paper towels and things. They haven't found tree roots, NOTHING. It is very odd.
 

Reach4

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J G, let's assume that by main drain being clogged, you mean the pipe going from your house to the street.

In the first post you said "But after yet another clog, but this time the sewage came up through a bathroom I had in the basement and flooded the basement." Why did the bathroom in the basement not flood but you did flood in a place higher up? If the problem is that main line being clogged, I think the basement fixtures would always flood before something higher flooded.

This presumes that you did not get some kind of backwater valve added in line with the basement bathroom sewer line but not in line with the main floor sewage.
 

Smooky

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You may have had several problems. The plumber may have fixed some of your problem but you could have a stopped up tub drain too.
I would think that if the problem was in the main drain out in the yard it would back up in the basement as Reach4 said. Unless there is back water valve or a separate drain pipe. Have you tried to snake the tub drain yet? …Also the water should not be leaking out into the wall or ceiling so there is something not put together right or was not glued or a slip joint might have come apart in the tub overflow pipe etc.
 

J G

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You may have had several problems. The plumber may have fixed some of your problem but you could have a stopped up tub drain too.
I would think that if the problem was in the main drain out in the yard it would back up in the basement as Reach4 said. Unless there is back water valve or a separate drain pipe. Have you tried to snake the tub drain yet? …Also the water should not be leaking out into the wall or ceiling so there is something not put together right or was not glued or a slip joint might have come apart in the tub overflow pipe etc.

Just to clarify something, although my tub drain backed up last night, it was a sudden back up. I mean I showered the night before with no water in the tub at all. And where the water is going through the ceiling and down into the basement it appears to be the pipe that runs from the toilet to the main drainage/clean out. So I THINK it is something wrong between the toilet and the cleanout..... I don't know

I find it all confusing. Why/how could the water back up to the tub, if it is leaking out anyways?

My insurance will be ripping the wall and ceiling out apparently because of the water damage, so I just hope this plumber will look at the pipes then when they are exposed. I am STUCK with this plumber because they warranty their work and I need this fixed without spending thousands more. I was just hoping to have a direction to PUSH these idiots in. I am thinking there was definitely more than one problem.

My only other question - This ceiling leak from the bathroom above, happened once before like 4 months ago and all they did was snake the system from the master toilet out to the street line. Then no leak for a month, but then I had the sewage come up through the bathroom in the basement, then they hydro jetted... and NOW this again, through the leak in the ceiling. Why would this leak be intermittent?
 

Reach4

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I am STUCK with this plumber because they warranty their work and I need this fixed without spending thousands more.

What does it mean that they warranty their work? If a flaw is found in a piece that they had not previously replaced, you pay, right? If they try changing things out (that they had not already changed) in 6 more phases, do you pay 6 more times?

Now if the plumber was paid by the house warranty, that would be different.
 

J G

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What does it mean that they warranty their work? If a flaw is found in a piece that they had not previously replaced, you pay, right? If they try changing things out (that they had not already changed) in 6 more phases, do you pay 6 more times?

Now if the plumber was paid by the house warranty, that would be different.

The way it was explained to me is I paid $900 for them to snake my line in the very original work. My home warranty refused to pay because they removed the toilet to snake and apparently you can only use the main cleanout for the warranty. They told me that one they snake the line they will then send a camera crew out to identify any other issues... and then for up to 1 year if I have any future clogs they will come back out free of charge to fix.

Well when they ran the camera down the line, they said that I need my lines jetted and that they would only snake my line 1 more time for free unless I did the jetting. Because obviously they won't snake every week for free if there is further work needing to be done to prevent this problem. BUT once I do the hydrojet they would then start my 1 year warranty from that point on. Basically they SWORE this would resolve my problem and would guarantee it which is the ONLY reason why I paid what I paid for this work because it meant I shouldn't have another worry.

Clearly they mis-diagnosed the problem, they were wrong and so the way I see it is they have to fix this and they also need to cover my $500 dollar deductible for my home owners insurance because had they fixed this right the 1st time I wouldn't have all this damage. *SIGH*
 

Cacher_Chick

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Without seeing how the drain piping is installed, we could only guess as to the cause of the problem. If your basement bath is gravity drained, any clog between the house and the street should back up into the lowest fixture first.
 

Reach4

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If your basement bath is gravity drained, any clog between the house and the street should back up into the lowest fixture first.

Oooh.. good point. I forgot that we don't know if he has an ejector pump for the basement sewage?


J G, do you have such a pump?

Also J G, the main drainage line to the sewer-- does it go out through the basement floor, or does it go out through the basement wall?
 

J G

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Oooh.. good point. I forgot that we don't know if he has an ejector pump for the basement sewage?


J G, do you have such a pump?

Also J G, the main drainage line to the sewer-- does it go out through the basement floor, or does it go out through the basement wall?

I have to be honest I don't know what an ejector pump is so I am thinking I must not have that.

My main drainage line enters the cement slab in my basement and under the house and out to the street. The area that is leaking is the pipe from the toilet to the main drainage line. It runs along the floor in the 1st floor along the bathroom wall, and that is where it leaks to the bedroom in the basement below.

I really appreciate everyone answering and trying to help. it is obvious the plumbers I have aren't so good.
 

Jadnashua

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If you have an obstruction in the line, depending on where it is, a 3-4" line (or bigger) 120+ feet long can hold a lot of water. So, it could be backed up a ways, and smaller uses don't exhibit any problems, but then dump what maybe 40-50 gallons from a big soaker tub down the line, and voila...you've filled the line totally up and gravity will just do its thing with it. This is all speculation, but a good camera operator should be able to see problems in the line.

Some of the best plumbers tend to be the small, independent ones that rely on repeat and referral business. Those that have the big fancy adds have to pay for them somehow. A good independent may not need any adds. And, on a big company, the guy that comes may not actually have a plumbing license, and is relying on the license of the owner, who may never get out in the field anymore.
 

Craigpump

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Mad makes two good points,

1) The amount of water held in the pipe
2) Big companies

The biggest pump co here in Ct has been around since the early '60's. They have the best ads on TV, the highest prices, and the worst reputation going
 

MichaelBukay

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Seems like a big mess. Next time the water comes out of the ceiling just cut the ceiling open and find where it's coming from. Patching drywall is cheap. Or when the insurance remodelers come, look in the walls and ceilings after they remove the old drywall. After all the headaches you have been having I would have opened the wall/ceiling where the water comes from. Seems something is hiding in there that no one has seen.

Also, check with the city about your "flip" you bought and make sure the seller pulled permits when they did the work before selling you the house. A lot of the people flipping houses like to work without permits and they hire cheap labor.
 
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