Shower valve rough in and NPT length

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by sassyav8r, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. sassyav8r

    sassyav8r New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    grapevine, tx
    Hello all-

    First of all, thanks for all the helpful info. that everyone supplies. I always recommend this site as well as John Bridge Tile forum to my friends. This is my first post after lurking for years and it coincides with my first complete shower remodel. After gutting the tile and molding greenboard and putting up vapor barrier and then Durock, the ceiling, floor and 2 walls are completely tiled, but not grouted. See link for photos. http://picasaweb.google.com/sassyav8r/Shower
    I have installed a thermostatic valve, diverter valve, shower head, hand shower and 4 body sprays.
    I have held off closing up that wall for some time as this was my first sweating experience. Does anyone see any issues with my plumbing? (there are no leaks) The loops are the same size to keep the pressure balanced. Do the NPT fittings to the body sprays have to all be the same length? I'd appreciate any tips or guidance on this.

    Thanks,

    Sas
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,038
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    shower

    Nice loops although they contributed absolutely zero to equalizing the pressure. The only way it would have helped would be if your supply line connected to both sides of the loop, and even then it would have been so negligible that it would not have been worth the time and/or material to do it.
  3. davefoc

    davefoc New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    California
    Hi sassyav8tr,
    I'm not a professional plumber or tile guy so my questions are just out of interest.

    Are those half inch or 3/4 inch pipes? Seems like half inch might be kind of small for all the heads, but that is an uninformed comment.

    Is the red material a vapor barrier? That is applied much differently that I have done mine. I just put the barrier across the studs and let the plumbing fixtures poke through it.

    Maybe this is painted on red guard? I've never seen it before. Is this the standard way of making a vapor barrier using red guard?

    The tiling looked great. congratulations.

    -Dave
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    Looks like RedGard to me. Yes, RedGard is an approved surface applied membrane. If you use it, you do NOT also use a vapor barrier behind the cbu on the studs. It is also allowed as a pan liner, but most people prefer a clamping drain and a liner sheet (it's more resistant to abrasion and defects during construction). The specification has some stringent film thickness requirements that are hard to determine if used for a liner. Just how do you tell if it is x mils thick without penetrating it, and who has the tools to verify that it is proper ALL over without say a pinhole somewhere? On the walls, it's not a big problem.
  5. sassyav8r

    sassyav8r New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    grapevine, tx
    Hi Dave-

    Thanks for responding. The red is RedGard. The wall is an interior closet wall that I wanted to protect, just in case my sweating was not good enough. The tiled walls had insulation and a thick plastic vapor barrier.

    The pipes are 1/2" and that was one of the things I did a lot of research on. All the things I read resulted in 50/50 regarding 1/2 vs. 3/4. I currently have 55 psi from my tank. I can certainly take it all out and sweat 3/4 on. I was just uncertain if it would make that much difference. I won't be running the shower, hand spray and body sprays all at once.

    Now, regarding the nipples. Do they all need to be the same length? This is where I really need the guidance. I'm off a 1/2" from the top to the bottom.

    Thanks,
    Sas
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2008
  6. davefoc

    davefoc New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    California
    I can see where you were going with the red guard on the closet wall and it might in net be a good thing. Over the life of a shower, there's a reasonable chance that there will be a leak at the valve or water entering through the hole for the shower heads I would guess (this is certainly true for older showers in the building that I maintain).

    That's why I've wondered about the idea of just using drywall on the wall with the valves and shower heads in it with the Kerdi system. Seems like at least that wall should be cement backer board.

    But I would worry that with your idea you've created a pocket where moisture could collect and there is only a limited path for it to evaporate out.
  7. sassyav8r

    sassyav8r New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    grapevine, tx
    I too was concerned about moisture build up and where it would go. What isn't in the photos is a vent pipe that I placed through a drilled hole in my stud. It is subsequently connected to another vent pipe that vents outside. I wasn't sure at the time if this was overkill but that's the way I do things.

    All, if this were your shower, what would you change? (before I close it up) Bring it. I can take it and I can fix it.

    Thanks,
    Sas
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2008
  8. davefoc

    davefoc New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    California
    Interesting about the vent holes. I put in a tube and ran it down to the crawl space in one of the showers that I did. The bathroom above leaked a little bit, possibly from water splashing out of the shower, it was an old shower and I didn't feel like messing with it so I put a plastic tube in and a wood collector to attempt to get the water away from the shower I was putting in. At the time I did it I was thinking it might provide a little ventilation for inside the soffit also. I think I'm going to do something similar next time except I'm going to be a little more ambitious about it and use the tube to drain away water that might get out of the bathroom and into the laminate floors.

    If you were asking for my advice, I am honored, even if my experience might be too limited to be of value. I took a good look at what you'd done. I have the following comments/questions:

    1. pipe size already mentioned. I think if this is an issue after the fact you might be able to run a new 3/4 inch to supply the shower without opening up the wall. I don't think (with no particularly good basis) the 1/2 inch lines in the shower will be much of a problem, but a 1/2 inch only supply line might be.

    2. You've got to be really careful (and it looks like you have been) to get the valve and diverter at the right level. I'm so nervous about this that I do a little assembly mockup to make sure I've got it right before I install the backer board and tile. I'm sure a pro doesn't do this but then they probably have this issue completely under control.

    3. Wrongly or rightly I insulate the pipes before I seal up the wall.

    4. Is there any reason to think about caulking the holes where the pipes pass through the sill and top plates? I haven't been doing this but in some of the pictures I've seen lately the holes have been caulked with fire caulk or with the expanding foam. I'm thinking I might do that in the future for fire or noise control reasons.
  9. sassyav8r

    sassyav8r New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    grapevine, tx
    NPT length issue solved, now need opinions on plumbing config.

    Hi all-
    I thought I'd give this one more try. Here is a link to the photo of the plumbing that I've done. http://box107.com/shower.htm I resweated the loops and all nipples will be the same length. My main concern now is the pipe from the thermostatic valve to the diverter. Will this bend impede the flow and prevent me from getting sufficient pressure? Any suggestions? I will be insulating the pipes when I'm done.

    Thanks for your help.

    Sas
  10. srdenny

    srdenny Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    Just curious. Can that diverter, which has one inlet and three outlets, allow two zones to work at one time, or are you limited to just one?
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,295
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The bend won't be an issue.
    Looks like everything is blocked out well.
    Looking good.
  12. sassyav8r

    sassyav8r New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    grapevine, tx
    Thank you for responding guys. Guess it's time to close up the wall. Regarding the question of the diverter...it is an 8 position that will allow 1,2 or all ports
    to operate. I know the 1/2" supply would'nt come close to adequate pressure for all 3 at once but hopefully it'll be okay for 2? I've decided to change the 90 deg. to the hand spray to a 45. Maybe this will help?

    Many thanks,
    Sassy:)
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