Shower Leak, pipe questions and future planning

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Chris Wagner

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Hello. Sorry if this is long but thought I would combine threads.

#1- Recently demo the kids bathroom. The kids bathroom had a tub/shower combo. The plumbing wall shares with the master bathroom. Once the wall was open I noticed the back of greenboard for master bathroom had a little leak. You can see in pictures where it is, the wood directly under does not appear to be/been wet.
Is this just a cartridge replacement for the master shower? Something else? Also included pic from master shower.

#2- We were thinking about a niche in this wall, as the long wall is exterior wall with 2x4. But I dont see how that is possible considering we would like to add a handheld for this bathroom and add a handheld for the master bathroom. Will that extra plumbing alone be possible in this wall?

#3- Notice the wood shims for the pipes. Is that a standard practice? I thought it was odd. Not to mention the half attached blocking,etc we found.

Thanks in advance!
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hj

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1. The"leak" is probably water entering around the large trim ring.
2. You can do almost anything you have the money and time for.
3. They were a "quick and dirty" way to secure the piping.
 

Chris Wagner

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Also what is the function of the copper pipe on both sides that keep extending up and are capped off?
 

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Reach4

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Also what is the function of the copper pipe on both sides that keep extending up and are capped off?
Those are the older version of water hammer arresters. After a while they become waterlogged, which the newer sealed units do not.
how-water-hammer-arrestor-works.jpg


If you turn off the water and drain the pipes, the water accumulated should get replaced with new air.
 

hj

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The key word is "SHOULD", but since the top is closed so no air can enter to let the water out, it only happens in the best of circumstances, and they are VERY, very, rare.
 

Chris Wagner

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Ok. Since this wall is shared by both showers,I was planning on redoing both showers with PEX for more flexibility because of potentially adding additional valves,handheld,etc to this wall. Would it be fine to eliminate those sections?
Pex would come in and T off to feed both valves, then run to anything additional from there. Does that make sense?
 

Cacher_Chick

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You can cut everything out and start over if you would like. Use copper for the shower head riser and the tub spout, the rest can be PEX.
 

Chris Wagner

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Hi cacher,

I had read to use copper for the tub spout but from valve to shower head should be copper to?
 

Jadnashua

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Copper makes it easier to anchor the valve and pipes in place. Pex also has a smaller ID, but if you only have one shower head, that difference in flow rate may not be an issue. It will take a bit longer to fill the tub, though. But, depending on where you convert to pex, you really don't want to try to feed both bathrooms from the same 1/2" pex...when it branches from copper, run a separate line to each to maintain proper flow.

Note, some valves call for the use of a hammer arrestor, some do not. What you have probably hasn't worked since maybe 6-months after they were installed.
 

Chris Wagner

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hj- just to clarify, you are saying copper is not needed from the valve to showerhead?

Jim - The bathroom has 3/4 copper run to it. It has "T" off the 3/4copper to the sink,toilet for this bathroom also for sinks and toilets in master. Then it reduces to 1/2 to feed the showers. I was planning to change to PEX a little after to reduces to 1/2. Are you saying I should T it there and run to each shower? Here is another pic where you can see where it goes from 3/4 to 1/2



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Terry

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The tub spout is copper or pipe nipples. It needs to be full size without restrictions.

The shower head can be run with PEX
The shower head is restricted anyway.
 

Chris Wagner

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The tub spout is copper or pipe nipples. It needs to be full size without restrictions.

The shower head can be run with PEX
The shower head is restricted anyway.
Thanks Terry. What would be your suggestion on running to the other shower? Can the PEX be Tee'd off to the other shower like it is now with copper or should I run another way like Jim was suggesting.
 

Jadnashua

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It sounds like you're trying to run both with the same 1/2" branch from the 3/4" copper T...I'd make the line 3/4" from that T, and ideally, keep it 3/4" until you get to the each tub/shower valve and then step it down to the valve, or less desirable, from the 3/4" copper, convert to two 1/2" pex lines. Some shower valves don't have any mounting holes, and you must rely on clamping the supply pipes to make the valve stable in the wall. Pex doesn't work well for that. Given the relatively short distances, I'd probably keep it all copper unless you have issues with copper failing (some water can be aggressive). By the time you buy the pex tool and the more expensive fittings, keeping it copper has some advantages.
 

Terry

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You can PEX off for the shower from the tub.
1/2" PEX is fine for the shower.

You can lose the air chambers if you want. I haven't installed air chambers on showers since the 70's
There are many ways to add blocking in the walls. Just get inventive. When I broke into plumbing, we had metal J hooks for securing our pipes. Then they came out with plastic pieces that fit in holes, clipped around pipes, and "snailed" pipes. I drill my holes now with 1-3/8", which allows for up to 1" pipe. With the correct "hole stuffers", "pipe insulators", or whatever you wanna call em, you an make it secure without rattle.

It looks like the old valves are Moentrol's. A good pressure balancing valve that they still make and have trims for.
 

Jadnashua

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1/2" pipe for one fixture. For two separate shower/tub, you'd want 1/2" coming from that 3/4" for each. You don't want it going 3/4" - 1/2" -back to 3/4" or to split that 1/2" into two separate 1/2" feeds for each shower/tub. IOW, keep it 3/4" until you can split it off for the two different shower/tubs, or run 3/4" all the way to each. 3/4" is way overkill for a shower only (with one head), but even if it's feeding a 1/2" valve, on a tub, you'll notice the difference in how fast it fills.
 

Chris Wagner

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hmm, Sorry not quite following. Let me clarify, the kids bathroom is a tub/shower, the Master bathroom is shower only. Kids valve will be replaced and then the master will eventually be replaced too(why I was looking for temp fix for that leaking). I understand the inside of PEX is smaller than copper but is it enough that the current configuration would no longer work to feed both showers? Current config attached.



Bathroom Plumbing.png
 

Jadnashua

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1/2" copper will run two shower heads fine. You may not like it if you are running the one shower while trying to fill the tub unless you split the 3/4" line into two individual 1/2" pipes. As shown, you drop the line to 1/2" and then try to feed both the master shower in one room and the tub/shower in the kids bathroom. I'd replace the 3/4" T with a reducing 3/4" T, so you have two individual 1/2" lines fed from that 3/4" line. Can't hurt, and only uses slightly more pipe. But, Terry does this day in and day out...
 
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