Should I install mixer valve? sweating toilet

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Molo

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Hello all,

I have two toilets that are sweating badly, i just replaced a large patch of subfloor because of rot. I want to stop this from happening, what can i do!!!???? Will a mixer valve work? Any advice on installing one and what brand to use? I have no experience with mixer valves.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks, Molo

toilet-mixing-valve.jpg
 
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Molo

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Need More Help!!! Toilet Sweating, Rotting Floor!

Thanks for the link Verde,

Based on the info gathered from the link, i t appears that tank insulation kits are not reliable. So....... I believe I have two options.

1. Install Mixer Valve
or
2. Buy new toilets (designed to prevent tank condensation)
Questions:
Which is better option, mixer valves or toilets?

Can anyone suggest brands or techniques of installing a mixer valve?

Does anyone kow of toilet brands/models that prevent tank condensation?
Any input is much appreciated, i need to stop the condensation from rotting the floors!
 

Terry

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You can go with flapperless tanks,

Pressure assist tanks

or Insulated tanks.

Toto and other brands make insulated tanks as an option

In the Toto Drake, it's a CST744SD

Most of the time though if a tank is dripping, it's a leaking flapper causing the problem.
 

Molo

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Terry, are Mixer Valves a Bad Idea??

Hello Terry,
Thanks for the reply, from the oracle himself. So are mixer valves a bad idea entirely? I'm pretty sure the toilet seals are ok. And a mixer valve would be cheaper than 2 new toilets.

Thanks for the response,
Molo
 

Verdeboy

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They're not a bad idea. But you have to tap into a hot water line. If there isn't one close by, it can be a pain. Maybe you can just buy a couple of insulated tanks that will fit.
 
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Cass

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molo, get an estimate for the cost of a tempering valve installed and then you can decide if you want to keep your old toilets or go for new.
 

Molo

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More mixer valve talk from Molo

I will be doing the work myself, so it is only a matter of materials cost. A mixer valve is much cheaper than a toilet. One way i know its not a tank/bowl seal problem is because i can see the condensation on the tank above any seals! So.........does anybody have any specific advice on mixer/valve brands and where ito install them?
 

Abikerboy

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molo said:
A mixer valve is much cheaper than a toilet. One way i know its not a tank/bowl seal problem is because i can see the condensation on the tank above any seals! So.........does anybody have any specific advice on mixer/valve brands and where ito install them?

You may see condensation on the tank above any seals, and you will probably see it all over the tank below the water level, even if a flapper or fill valve is leaking. I went through this a couple of years ago. Never had a problem with condensation before in my life, then one nice warm day, one of my toilet tanks was sweating to beat the day! Plumber found a fill valve that was letting water trickle into the tank. Was actually leaking so small that you couldnt really notice it. He explained to me that when a tank of water sets at room temp, no problem, but if you have a slow leaking flapper, or a fill valve with a worn seal, you are constantly introducing a very small amount of fresh, cold water into the tank, always keeping the tank below room temp, and then you have condensation...sort of like leaving your cold beer on the table for a few minutes. Put some food coloring in the tank, see if it shows up in the bowl. If so, flush it all out, let it refill, put in more food coloring, and turn off the water supply. If it still shows up in the bowl with the water off, put in a new flapper. If it only shows up in the bowl with the water supply on, then put in a new fill valve. If it were mine, I would just go ahead and replace both the flapper and the fill valve. You can buy a kit at L**es that has both in it, and I would bet that the kit is even cheaper yet than a mixing valve.
 
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Molo

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Going to do the food coloring test! and repair accordingly!

Thanks for the response abikerboy! I will try those dye tests.
Another note...........The toilets in my home get flushed all the time. Therefore, cold water from our well is always being added (every flush), and there are alot of them! I will move forward on the food coloring tests, and see what i find! I'LL BE BACK!

Thanks,
Molo
 

Abikerboy

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molo said:
Thanks for the response abikerboy! I will try those dye tests.
Another note...........The toilets in my home get flushed all the time. Therefore, cold water from our well is always being added (every flush), and there are alot of them! I will move forward on the food coloring tests, and see what i find! I'LL BE BACK!

Thanks,
Molo
I hope this solves your problem. Good luck!
 

Verdeboy

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abikerboy said:
You may see condensation on the tank above any seals, and you will probably see it all over the tank below the water level, even if a flapper or fill valve is leaking. I went through this a couple of years ago. Never had a problem with condensation before in my life, then one nice warm day, one of my toilet tanks was sweating to beat the day! Plumber found a fill valve that was letting water trickle into the tank. Was actually leaking so small that you couldnt really notice it. He explained to me that when a tank of water sets at room temp, no problem, but if you have a slow leaking flapper, or a fill valve with a worn seal, you are constantly introducing a very small amount of fresh, cold water into the tank, always keeping the tank below room temp, and then you have condensation...sort of like leaving your cold beer on the table for a few minutes. Put some food coloring in the tank, see if it shows up in the bowl. If so, flush it all out, let it refill, put in more food coloring, and turn off the water supply. If it still shows up in the bowl with the water off, put in a new flapper. If it only shows up in the bowl with the water supply on, then put in a new fill valve. If it were mine, I would just go ahead and replace both the flapper and the fill valve. You can buy a kit at L**es that has both in it, and I would bet that the kit is even cheaper yet than a mixing valve.

If the flapper was leaking, no matter how minor, you would hear the fill valve go on every now and then, and it would be loud.

You can generally tell if the fill valve is leaking by pulling out the little rubber tube that is clipped to your flush valve and looking to see if any water comes out. And, if your fill valve was leaking from the top or the bottom, you would notice that your tank was overflowing, and you would be able to hear a drip drip drip sound if it was quiet enough.
 
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Plumber1

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Tempering valves are not expensive and if your toilet sits next to a vanity just connect them in the cabinet and run the supply line. It will not look bad and will solve your problem.
 

Mikey

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I inadvertantly avoided this problem when I re-plumbed my house overhead following an under-slab leak. During the summer, the tank always refills with water well above the dewpoint -- late in the afternoon, it's about 120 degrees. It'll be a little chillier in the winter, but then the humidity is low enough I doubt there'll be a problem.
 

Molo

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Thanks for the response, Can I build my own Mixer Valve?

I think I'm going with a mixer valve. Can i simply build one by doing the following?

1. Putting a ball valve on a hot water line
2. Putting a flow controls on the hot and cold lines
3. Combining the hot and cold lines after the flow controls.

If this will work I'll do it, if not I'll buy them from the store.

Thanks for any input.
Molo
 

Plumber1

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Price out a Dole or another tempering valve. It might be cheaper to go that route.
It sure would be a lot safer than a cracked, leaking toilet tank.......
 

Molo

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OK, Specific Question about Tempering Valves

I am wondering if the tempering valve will work for my toilet that is far away from the hot water tank. Will the water warm up in time? Anyone with any suggestions or experience will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Molo
 

Cass

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If it is a newer toilet using 1.6 Gal./ flush it will depend on a combination of 3 things. The distance your toilet is from the water heater and if your water lines are copper.

When you flush as the hot water is traveling down the pipe the toilet will be filling. The copper will be drawing heat from the hot water side and cooling it while the toilet is filling. The time it takes the toilet to fill and how much tempered water gets to the tank will depend on the distance. But if you shower then flush the hot water will be there from the start. That said if there will be multiple people using it like in the AM getting ready to leave and not just you 1 time it should work then also.

How far is the toilet from the heater.

I have been in some homes that it takes nearly 2 min. to get hot water to the bath.
 

Mikey

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You could also install an on-demand circulating pump to draw hot water to the bathroom area prior to flushing.
 

Molo

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I bought mixer valves yesterday, there is a set screw foir adjusting the amount of hot water, and not the cold. It would be nice if you could control the flow of both, because I would cut the cold down, and turn up the hot. I'm wodering if I should install a ball valve on the cold before the tempering valve so I can control the amount of cold. Also, Mikey, I have no experience with those heaters you mentioned, are they expensive?

Thanks,
Molo
 
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