Frank lammers
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Can anyone recommend a shallow well pump with 1" intake
Shallow well pump w/ 1"intake
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Texas Wellman
In the Trades
IMO Goulds makes the best shallow well pumps. You just need an adapter to go to 1", it should work fine but you will lose a little flow.
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It is not the size of the pump intake that matters. It is the distance and volume needed. Your pump will see the friction loss from the small pipe as the well being deeper, and it just won't pump as much water. All pump manufacturers recommend increasing the suction pipe size in most cases. Even though the pump has a 1 1/4" inlet, they would recommend a 2" suction pipe if the distance is very far.
One thing that will help with a small suction line is a CSV and a small pressure tank. With the "old traditional pressure tank only systems" the pump is producing max flow until the tank is full. You may only be using 3 GPM, but the pump fills the tank at 15 GPM or whatever size pump it is. If 15 GPM is more than you can suck through the small suction pipe, it will cause low NPSHA and cavitation, which is not good.
When using a CSV and a small tank, the pump is only producing as much water as you are using. So when you are only using 3 GPM, the pump is only producing 3 GPM, which is low enough flow even in small suction pipe to prevent NPSH problems and cavitation.
One thing that will help with a small suction line is a CSV and a small pressure tank. With the "old traditional pressure tank only systems" the pump is producing max flow until the tank is full. You may only be using 3 GPM, but the pump fills the tank at 15 GPM or whatever size pump it is. If 15 GPM is more than you can suck through the small suction pipe, it will cause low NPSHA and cavitation, which is not good.
When using a CSV and a small tank, the pump is only producing as much water as you are using. So when you are only using 3 GPM, the pump is only producing 3 GPM, which is low enough flow even in small suction pipe to prevent NPSH problems and cavitation.
Frank lammers
New Member
Be advised that my 1" is being gravity fed from 500 gal. Tan 100 ft. Away. Does that change things
Your other thread said "Be advised my tank is 125 ft away with 15 ft of elevation."
The green column on https://flexpvc.com/Reference/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml is simple -- probably overly simplified. Still, it seems to provide some useful information.
http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/ seems more complete. I would maybe use 1 mm of roughness for the roughness number. 15 ft of drop contributes 6.5 PSI of head. If I could allow for a 10 PSI vacuum at the intake of the pump, I would need less than maybe 16.5 PSI of drop. I don't know if 10 PSI of vacuum is a good target number, but it seems OK to me. Fittings will add to the effective length.
Note that schedule 40 PVC "1 inch" is a little over an inch ID, "1 inch" PEX is only 0.875 inch.
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The 15' is the same as 6.5 PSI as Reach says. That will make up for some of the friction loss in the 1" long pipe. You really should still have positive pressure at the pump, but if it draws enough it may pull a vacuum. As long as it doesn't pull more vacuum than a jet pump can draw from, you will be good to go.
My Sch 40 pipe chart shows you will lose 6.5 PSI for every 100' of pipe when drawing 17 GPM. So I would say if the pump produces less than 15 GPM, there will not be a problem. And like I said, when used with a CSV and a small tank, the pump will only draw the amount as you are using, not as much as the pump will produce.
It would be interesting to install a combination gauge on the pump input line. 30" Hg vacuum to 60 PSI seems safe. Maybe there is no need to allow for such a high pressure, so 30"Hg to 15 PSI would be better. The downside to adding a gauge is that you want to avoid any suction leak, and adding more joints means more places to leak.
Do you need a check valve on the intake? I expect so.
Do you need a check valve on the intake? I expect so.
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Texas Wellman
In the Trades
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I rarely find a thread where the CSV would not be advantageous for the problem being discussed. Do you not see an advantage to drawing a steady low flow rate rather than cycling with a regular pressure switch where it would be drawing maximum flow then zero flow through a long and small suction line?Do you really have to turn every thread into a CSV thread?
Frank lammers
New Member
I will have about 6 psi head pressure at in take and the pump I purchased has 7.2 GPM at zero lift. I planned on using 32 gal. Pressure take so that it would not cycle often. What size tank would you recommend and do you know of a quality pump with 1" intake.Do you really have to turn every thread into a CSV thread?
Frank lammers
New Member
Sorry I just looked up what a CSV was. Could you recommend a quality CSV pump
The CSV is a control for the pump, it is not a pump. A 32 gallon tank holds about 7 gallons of water, which will give you a 1 minute run time with a 7 GPM pump. And at 7 GPM you only have about 1.5 PSI loss in the 125' of 1" suction pipe, which is good. With only a 7 GPM pump and not having much friction loss in the 125' line, a CSV is not as helpful as when you have a 15 GPM pump or more.
What pump do you have? 7.2 GPM sounds very low for a jet pump. Must be a little 1/2 HP.
What pump do you have? 7.2 GPM sounds very low for a jet pump. Must be a little 1/2 HP.
Texas Wellman
In the Trades
A 32 gallon tank holds more like 9 gallons, which will be just fine with a 7 gpm jet pump.
This is a smaller jet pump: Goulds Shallow Well Jet Pump | JRS5 - 1/2 HP
It has 1-1/4 intake, but you could use a 1-1/4-in Dia x 1-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Adapter. If you are using something other than PVC, I am confident there is an adapter for that.
Don't forget the check valve.
It has 1-1/4 intake, but you could use a 1-1/4-in Dia x 1-in Dia PVC Sch 40 Adapter. If you are using something other than PVC, I am confident there is an adapter for that.
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Frank lammers
New Member
Do I need a check valve if there's at least 6 psi at Inlet
How much pressure will be in your pressure tank? 30, 40 PSI? So the higher pressure water pushes back through the pump and pipe toward the elevated storage tank, until the pump goes on again.
How do you keep the water in the storage tank from freezing?
Frank lammers
New Member
Spring head is 100 ft. Above water tank.4" hose feeds collection tank 4-5' underground. 500 gal. Holding tank is underground w/ outlet 4' underground and over flow out of top of tank-( getting 5 gpms out of ). The problem is I spoke to a local upstate N.Y. and he used a1" line to house w/ combo pump pressure take and that's where I made mistake $$$. 1" line goes 100 ft, into house 4-5 ' underground w/ about 6 psi head pressure to the would be intake. Should I go w/ constant presume pump to pressure tank in basement or incorporate csv. Have seen constant pressure pumps w/ 1" intake. P.s. is a check valve nessesary w/ 6 psi at Inlet to pump. Thanks for putting up w/ me.
A JS5 regular jet pump like reach mentioned would be best. Just add a little 20-30 gallon pressure tank and you can probably run the pressure switch at 40/60 just fine. And yes you need a check valve. Best to put it on the suction side if you don't want to move the pressure switch that comes with a JS5. Just neck it down to 1" with a bushing.
Frank lammers
New Member
Thank you for everything.
I can't help myself.
Now if you don't want to see the pressure constantly changing from 40 to 60, 60 to 40 anytime you are using water, you could use a CSV1A with that tank or use a Pside-Kick kit that comes with a CSV and a 4.5 gallon tank instead of the 30 gallon tank. That way when you use water the pressure will stay at a nice strong 50 PSI constant, and your pump won't be cycling itself to death, even though jet pumps can survive quite a bit of cycling.
Now if you don't want to see the pressure constantly changing from 40 to 60, 60 to 40 anytime you are using water, you could use a CSV1A with that tank or use a Pside-Kick kit that comes with a CSV and a 4.5 gallon tank instead of the 30 gallon tank. That way when you use water the pressure will stay at a nice strong 50 PSI constant, and your pump won't be cycling itself to death, even though jet pumps can survive quite a bit of cycling.
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