Shallow Well Help

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Justwater

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there's a possibility that the well is completely stopped up with sand and isn't producing. to be sure u would pull the drop pipe out and try to fill the well with a water hose. If it will take water it will make water.
 

Rwbil

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there's a possibility that the well is completely stopped up with sand and isn't producing. to be sure u would pull the drop pipe out and try to fill the well with a water hose. If it will take water it will make water.

I am going to try and pull the well tomorrow, but have a question. What is the best way to pull a well pipe, that is at least 25' and full of water?
 

Justwater

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I'm not sure what your talking about. Just break the coupling loose at the top of the well and pull the PVC drop pipe out by hand (don't break and drop it in the well). Do not try and pull the 2" pipe.
 

Rwbil

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I'm not sure what your talking about. Just break the coupling loose at the top of the well and pull the PVC drop pipe out by hand (don't break and drop it in the well). Do not try and pull the 2" pipe.

Never tried this before. I was just thinking a PVC pipe, lets say 40' filled with water (foot valve at the bottom), might be tough to lift.

An update. I dropped a line down the well and it went down 26' before hitting something, which I am thinking was the foot valve.

Also the horizontal line that had sand in, which I cleared earlier was full of sand again. I am wondering should I clear it out again and try again. If I do I am going to have to had some unions so I am not trying to cut and re-glue each time.

If there is a foot valve and the well is only 26' deep and no well point, what is suppose to stop the sand from getting in and clogging up the pipes. Yet is had been working. And if I replace the foot valve with a well point, what stops the wellpoint from getting clogged with sand?

I do not want to be digging a new well until I evaluate this first well. Do you have any recommendations for anyone in my area that has lots of experience?
 
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Rwbil

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Update,

Pulled the well. Actually easier than I expected. Finally could get an accurate measurement. It is 30'.

Now the bad news poured water down the 2" pipe and it is not going down. I understand clearing a well point that might be clogged. But what exactly does it mean when the 2" casing is not draining down? Is there a way to clear it?

If I drill another well next to that well would it not have the same problem?
 

Rwbil

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Some photos of the pipe and the well not taking water. The well pipe is 1" and if when I cut off the foot valve it was full of sand.

I also dropped a snake down the 2" casing and it hits something solid at the bottom.

Here is my plan at this point. I am thinking about taking a 1.5" pipe, sharpen the edges and putting water down it and trying to dig down further in that 2" casing until the water takes, hopefully not that much further. The 1" pipe has built in couplers and will not go inside the 1.5" pipe, so I will cut that off and use inside 1" couplers and add a well point, get rid of the foot valve (which also will not fit inside the 1.5" pipe)

Any thoughts.

Update on my plan. I measured how far the snake went in and it hit something 3" shorter than the pipe and the pipe seems like it is full of sand for about that same 3' distance at the bottom.

So now I am wondering what that means. Remember I am a novice in this area so my ideas may be way off base.

Could the 2" casing be allowing dirt water to come in and filling up the area around the PVC pipe. If that is the case and I could dig down to the water table using my plan discussed above, wouldn't the same thing happen again.
 

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LLigetfa

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Some photos of the pipe and the well not taking water. The well pipe is 1" and if when I cut off the foot valve it was full of sand...

If you cannot sustain sufficient flow rate, the sand will collect inside the casing. It is possible that you have a mud well, not a rock well and that the casing was jetted down without a sandpoint. Wells such as that can work for years if the GPM draw is below what it takes to get the sand moving. I had problems with my 50 foot mud well before I developed it.

You could try jetting out the sand from the casing to see how deep it goes. If it is full of sand, then there is not likely any sandpoint or the casing has a hole in it.

If the water table is high, the well might not take water by simply pouring it in. You either need to add a standpipe for additional height or pump water in under pressure.

Depending on how many GPM you need from the well, after you jet it out, you could try putting down a 1.25" PVC sandpoint if it fits. You would need to use inside couplers.
 

Rwbil

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If you cannot sustain sufficient flow rate, the sand will collect inside the casing. It is possible that you have a mud well, not a rock well and that the casing was jetted down without a sandpoint. Wells such as that can work for years if the GPM draw is below what it takes to get the sand moving. I had problems with my 50 foot mud well before I developed it.

You could try jetting out the sand from the casing to see how deep it goes. If it is full of sand, then there is not likely any sandpoint or the casing has a hole in it.

If the water table is high, the well might not take water by simply pouring it in. You either need to add a standpipe for additional height or pump water in under pressure.

Depending on how many GPM you need from the well, after you jet it out, you could try putting down a 1.25" PVC sandpoint if it fits. You would need to use inside couplers.

I will buy a 2" male adapter and try extending the pipe and then adding more water to see if it takes.

But a couple of questions. I can not see what is down the 2" casing, but would it be normal for a 2" casing to have a screen and also have a 1" PVC pipe going down it with a foot valve?

The 1" pipe was 30' long and I am hitting something sand or whatever at about 27' inside the 2" casing and the 1" pipe was also full of sand at the bottom.

I wish I could switch that 1" pipe for 1.25" pipe but the biggest pipe I can get down the 2" casing is 1.5" and I have to use inside couplers to make that fit in the 2" pipe. So I can not fit 1.25" inside the 1.5" pipe that also has inside couplers.

Actually now that I am writing this I realize my idea probably will not work, because I will not be able to fit the 1.25" well point through the 1.5" pipe.

I will have to rethink my plan.

Also if I have to drill another well, does it matter how far I am from this existing well with problems? I would like to just drill right next to it.
 
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LLigetfa

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Get yourself a 2" Tee and some more 2" pipe while you're at it. You can use it to divert the discharge when you jet out the mud so as not to fill up the hole in the ground.

I don't get why you want to line the casing with 1.5" pipe. Just see how far you can jet down and consider putting in a 1.25" sandpoint if you can get down far enough and the well starts to take enough water.
 

LLigetfa

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I can not see what is down the 2" casing, but would it be normal for a 2" casing to have a screen and also have a 1" PVC pipe going down it with a foot valve?
It's anyone's guess what is in the ground. As I said before, someone may have simply jetted down a length of 2" casing with no screened section and no sandpoint. Decades ago, my father and I jetted down 120 feet of 2" casing and then put a 1" poly pipe with a footvalve. If/when he used a lot of water, it would bring up sand.
 

LLigetfa

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You are fortunate in that you have a ready supply of water under pressure. My father and I had to haul water a half mile from a creek and use a gas powered pump.

Use the pump you have to boost the city water pressure for jetting. You can make a jetting nozzle from a F/F reducing coupler. Cut several slots through the threads with a hacksaw or triangle file to create a spray pattern, some shooting forward, but most shooting backward up the casing. Google for sewer jetting nozzles for an idea of the spray pattern.
 

Rwbil

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Get yourself a 2" Tee and some more 2" pipe while you're at it. You can use it to divert the discharge when you jet out the mud so as not to fill up the hole in the ground.

I don't get why you want to line the casing with 1.5" pipe. Just see how far you can jet down and consider putting in a 1.25" sandpoint if you can get down far enough and the well starts to take enough water.

I do not want to line the 2" casing with 1.5" pipe. I was going to use the 1.5" pipe as my digging pipe by notching teeth in and jetting water down it. I could try and jet down a 1.25" pipe with a well point, but I figured it will not have much digging power.
 

Texas Wellman

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You have an expert in the well business in your area that gave you some great advice. I would listen to what he said about your set-up.

Skip all the 1.5" thinking and sand point attempts. The sand is probably getting in because there is a hole in the casing up high. Anytime you have enough sand to fill up the suction line then you have problems.

Do yourself a favor-get the biggest air compressor you can. A 5-HP gasoline portable will work. Drop an air line down the well with a "T" on top. Stuffing rag with the line going down the top, short section of 2" to divert the water away from you. Blow it. See how much water it makes and how much sand is coming out.

Here is a pic of a 2.5" well (ignore the home-made 2.5x2" adapter under the plastic "T") being blown. Well made about 15 gpm using a 5-HP gasoline portable compressor.

surgewell.jpg
 

Justwater

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id bet 100$ the well isnt 30' deep and it's not a mud well... ive never even heard of a mud well. IT SHOULD TAKE WATER, even at shallow table. The hole in casing has let so much sand in that the well is stopped up. don't use 1.5".. Use 1" glued together hooked to a water hose and start pushing the pipe down washing out the inside of the casing. eventually the water and sand will quit coming out because the well will start taking water. Then you are gonna need to pump it off best you can and line it with that 1" pipe with a 2x1 packer keeping the seal inside the casing. U'll need to set it probably 20-30' off the bottom of the total well depth. if you do this correctly it will fix your well. you will not be able to use your well if you dont line out that hole. The sand will keep coming back and get worse. jmo, take it or leave it..
 
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Rwbil

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id bet 100$ the well isnt 30' deep and it's not a mud well... ive never even heard of a mud well. IT SHOULD TAKE WATER, even at shallow table. The hole in casing has let so much sand in that the well is stopped up. don't use 1.5".. Use 1" glued together hooked to a water hose and start pushing the pipe down washing out the inside of the casing. eventually the water and sand will quit coming out because the well will start taking water. Then you are gonna need to pump it off best you can and line it with that 1" pipe with a 2x1 packer keeping the seal inside the casing. U'll need to set it probably 20-30' off the bottom of the total well depth. if you do this correctly it will fix your well. jmo, take it or leave it..

Not sure about the mud well. I did try an add an extender 2" pipe way above the ground to see if that made a difference. The water still stays to the top.

Not sure what the criteria is for that $100 bet. But you can see the 1" well pipe on the ground in one of my photos and it is 30'. I have no idea about the 2" casing though.

I assume this 2 x1 packer is something that fits tight in side the 2" casing to seal it off. Where do I get that from. I am not sure what you mean by set it 20-30' off the bottom of the well. The PVC pipe is 30'.
 

Justwater

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You'll need more than 30' of 1" PVC. I'd start with 60' and might need more. Hook it to water hose and wash it in the 2" pipe. Wash it down as far as it will let u. This will open the well back up and tell you total well depth.

I don't know where you can get a 2x1 seal. Hardware stores sell leather ones that are use in deepwell jets. U just squeeze it between 2 glued couplings. only problem with them is if you happen to push it too deep and go past the casing, it doesnt want to come up. You can't set the seal at the very bottom or you will block off the rock. It needs to be set higher inside the casing. for instance, a well may be 80' total depth, but only 60' of 2" casing.. with the last 20' being open hole through rock. I can set a seal perfectly right at the bottom of the casing and the well will never pump sand again.

not sure what else I can tell u here.. either you get it or you don't.
 

Texas Wellman

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A mud well is a well that was never drilled right to start with and instead of fixing it right you get the wool pulled over your eyes and end up spending lots of wasted time and energy dealing with the fictious "mud well".
 

Rwbil

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You'll need more than 30' of 1" PVC. I'd start with 60' and might need more. Hook it to water hose and wash it in the 2" pipe. Wash it down as far as it will let u. This will open the well back up and tell you total well depth.

I don't know where you can get a 2x1 seal. Hardware stores sell leather ones that are use in deepwell jets. U just squeeze it between 2 glued couplings. only problem with them is if you happen to push it too deep and go past the casing, it doesnt want to come up. You can't set the seal at the very bottom or you will block off the rock. It needs to be set higher inside the casing. for instance, a well may be 80' total depth, but only 60' of 2" casing.. with the last 20' being open hole through rock. I can set a seal perfectly right at the bottom of the casing and the well will never pump sand again.

not sure what else I can tell u here.. either you get it or you don't.

I think I somewhat get it, the problem is I am not sure how my jet pump is going to pump up 60', but I like your idea. I am headed to the store to get some parts. I will try and see if I can punch through until the water takes. If I can I will put in 1.25" pipe with well point. This might be only a temporary fix though. But if it works it gives me more time to build another shallow well in another area when it is cooler outside. I will let you know what happens.

By the way, are you saying you think the 2" casing goes down a lot further than the 1" PVC well pipe?
 
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Justwater

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U dont follow instructions well. I didn't say anything about a sand point, and didn't say anything about 1.25" pipe. Use a well point and it will soon clog then the sand will act like Chinese hand cuffs and you won't pull it out with a crane. Wash 1" down to the bottom, not just until it takes water. Then set a seal 20-30' above the very bottom using 1" pipe with 2x1 on bottom. Then plumb back to pump with an inline check valve at front of pump.

Yes, the 2" pipe goes down farther than the 1" drop pipe. the drop pipe is in there because it's more reliable than pulling strait off that 2" steel pipe. The water level will stay the same so you can still use your pump even when hooked to a much deeper 1" pipe.
 
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Rwbil

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U dont follow instructions well. I didn't say anything about a sand point, and didn't say anything about 1.25" pipe. Use a well point and it will soon clog then the sand will act like Chinese hand cuffs and you won't pull it out with a crane. Wash 1" down to the bottom, not just until it takes water. Then set a seal 20-30' above the very bottom using 1" pipe with 2x1 on bottom. Then plumb back to pump with an inline check valve at front of pump.

I followed you, but I am getting lots of information on this board and trying to see what will work best with the jet pump and equipment I have, what I think I can do and what I need to do. The old foot valve at least had a screen, though too big to stop sand. I am concerned about having no screen before the pump.

I doubt I am going to be able to do the seal thing. I think this well has collapsed and I really need a new well. I am just trying to get a temporary fix so I can drill a new well later. Assuming I can clear out the sand I am either going to put back the foot valve or the well point. If the well point will not work then I will probably put back the foot valve.
 
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