setting up new well/system and shocking question

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ugabulldog

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I have an old well (if records are corect: 420' deep, water at 88', pump at 240') the pump and pipe was put in new about six months ago and I am about to trench/tie in to new construction house which is complete minus water supply. the well water tested positive for e-coli so I plan on shocking well, also pvc pipe going to house has been laying on the ground for a couple of months, should these need to be shocked also? And should I shock house plumbing and fixtures? Or shut off supply to house after bladder tank and not use water until after shocking. Also, well is 380' from house, so my next question is: instead of running 380' of hose from house to recirculate water down well (hose bib between tank and house shut-off valve), is there someway I can install a hose bib at well and have pump run,.... how could I get pump to run without pressure switch at tank telling it to(because that water would have to go somewhere) I hope this is making sense....thanks.
 
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Gary Slusser

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Yes you need to disinfect the plumbing/water in the house. And the rest of the piping and especially any laying open on the ground.

If you can lift the pump to get the drop pipe up out of the casing a foot or two it isn't very difficult to plumb a connection to get chlorinated water back down the well. That's with a pitless adapter and PE pipe, PVC would be a bit harder and no pitless would be the hardest.
 

ugabulldog

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thanks gary,....... I am also wondering about getting water to the well since house is 380' away, if i install a spicket at well and turn on, it won't work because pressure switch at tank under house won't change, correct? Is there a way I could bypass switch so pump would run?? (i guess i could just buy alot of garden hose...)
 
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Valveman

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You can install a faucet at the well head. If there is no check valve above ground, the water will go back from the tank to the faucet and the pressure switch will start the pump.

If there is a check valve before the tank, you just need to run some water at the house so the pump will start. Then if you use enough flow with the faucet at the well head, the pump won’t fill the tank enough to shut off the pump.

You still need chlorine through all the lines and the tank. But after you get it stirred up in the well, you can let some water out of the faucets at the house and the chlorine will fill the lines.

Disclaimer;
Chlorine will eat copper and metallic pipes. Never let chlorine into the septic tank.
 

Gary Slusser

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thanks gary,....... I am also wondering about getting water to the well since house is 380' away, if i install a spicket at well and turn on, it won't work because pressure switch at tank under house won't change, correct? Is there a way I could bypass switch so pump would run?? (i guess i could just buy alot of garden hose...)
You don't want used chlorine to go back into the well (or into your septic). Running a line from an outside faucet to the well for 15-20 minutes is done to get the chlorine spread throughout the column of water in the well and to disinfect the casing above the water line. That's because chlorine (bleach) is heavier than water and will naturally sink to the bottom of the well (below the pump's inlet), not doing its job from the top down.

You can't run a garden hose to the well so you should pump water to above the casing and let it fall right back down the well for like 15-20 minutes before running the water to the house. You can't do that either.

Mix the bleach with water in buckets to dilute it and pour it down the well. Since you can't run water down the well, run an outside faucet/hose smelling the air exiting a bucket as you spray water into the bucket with your nose on the rim of a bucket or your head in the bucket until you smell chlorine. If no smell, mix up more bleach water and repeat until you do. Keep chlorinated water out of your eyes and off your clothes. You need a strong smell of chlorine.

Then you run cold chlorinated water into the house to all appliances and fixtures first using a glass and cold water to smell for chlorine. Run the water into the glass as you smell for chlorine with your nose on the rim. When you have a strong smell of chlorine in the cold at the kitchen sink, run the hot there for 2-3 minutes; you won't smell chlorine.

Then go flush all toilets and run cold water at all sinks tubs, clothes and dish washers, outside faucets and dump the ice maker and let it start drawing water and then shut it off.

Then start the clothes dish washer to get some chlorinated water into the plumbing to and in them, same for the dish washer. BTW, you by pass filters (or remove cartridges) and softeners etc. before running chlorinated water into the house.

After getting chlorinated water to all fixtures and appliances and running hot water for 2-3 minutes, let things sit for 15-20 minutes and then turn on all cold water faucets (one at a time) at all sinks etc. (no flushing toilets or running hot water) for 5-10 seconds and wait another 15-20 minutes (the longer the better) and repeat that for 2 hours (longer the better).

You do that to replaced the spent/used chlorine with fresh/stronger/free chlorine residual from the well and to flush out 'sediment' caused by the chlorine so it can do more disinfecting/sanitizing.

Then after the 2+ hours of running cold water every so often, run water outside where chlorine and such (rust) won't harm plants etc. until you can't smell chlorine in the water anymore. Flush all toilets and Spin the clothes washer and run the dish washer some and turn on the ice maker and when it has made some ice, dump it, that is to flush all chlorinated water from all appliances and pipes (outside faucets also).

Sometimes you won't be able to get all the chlorine out of the well for 3-5+/- days. Once it is gone, wait 7-10 days with none in the water before retesting for Coliform bacteria.

You must watch that you don't run the well 'dry'.
 

Ballvalve

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A well driller that doesn't leave the job with a bib at the well and a port in the cap for chlorinating should find a new business.
 

Tom Sawyer

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No driller here would do that. Leaving a hose bib at the well is an invitation to cause a backflow problem.

Now here is the correct way to disinfect the system per IPC, UPC and Nat Std **** Code


2.The system or part thereof shall be filled with a water chlorine solution containing at least 50 parts per mil(50 mgk) of chlorine, and the system or part thereof shall be valved off and allowed to stand for 24 hours; or water supply. the system or part thereof shall be filled with a water chlorine solution containing at least 200 parts per million of chlorine and allowed to stand for 3 hours.
3. Following the required standing time, the system shall be
flushed with clean potable water until the chlorine is
purged from the system.
4. The procedure shall be repeated where shown by a bacteriological
examination that contamination remains present
in the system.

Note that 15 to 20 minutes is nowhere near long enough.
 
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Gary Slusser

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No driller here would do that. Leaving a hose bib at the well is an invitation to cause a backflow problem.

Now here is the correct way to disinfect the system per IPC, UPC and Nat Std **** Code

2.The system or part thereof shall be filled with a water chlorine solution containing at least 50 parts per mil(50 mgk) of chlorine, and the system or part thereof shall be valved off and allowed to stand for 24 hours; or water supply. the system or part thereof shall be filled with a water chlorine solution containing at least 200 parts per million of chlorine and allowed to stand for 3 hours.

3. Following the required standing time, the system shall be
flushed with clean potable water until the chlorine is
purged from the system.

4. The procedure shall be repeated where shown by a bacteriological
examination that contamination remains present
in the system.

Note that 15 to 20 minutes is nowhere near long enough.
Actually I said to run the chlorinated water to all fixtures and then after 15-20 minutes run cold water for 5-10 seconds and repeat that for two hours or longer so you flush out the used chlorinated water for fresh full strength chlorinated water from the well. Do you see some magic in the numbers 50 200 24 and 3?

BTW, all types of bacteria found in groundwater is killed within 20 minutes exposure to a strong chlorine solution with sufficient free chlorine in it. That would be from .5 to 1.5 ppm.

Steve, sometimes, like this one, I think all you know about this type thing is what is in your code books. And my guess is that the OP being a homeowner with a private well has no need to conform to those codes. And if he wants to see if he has an ongoing contamination he should follow my procedure rather than assuming he does because he didn't get rid of it the first time he shocked the system.

The figures you quoted are verbatim from what many colleges and universities have printed for a couple decades. I first read them in 1987 and actually adapted my process after many wells were still contaminated following their shocking 'instructions'. Those kids and probably the code writers have never treated a well with Coiform bacteria contamination. If you actually were to test for the 50 ppm and 200 ppm, you wouldn't know if there was sufficient free chlorine left after any oxidation and disinfection occurred. That's a standard problem with book knowledge as compared to field experience.

Allowing chlorinated stagnant water to sit in plumbing for 24 hours or in a well for 3 hours is a waste of time and that's why the codes say to repeat the procedure if follow up testing shows the contamination still exists.

Why would you disinfect a well and not the plumbing from it into the building using the water from the well?

Question, where are you supposed to get that "clean potable water" to flush the system of the chlorinated water?
 

Tom Sawyer

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Steve, sometimes, like this one, I think all you know about this type thing is what is in your code books. And my guess is that the OP being a homeowner with a private well has no need to conform to those codes. And if he wants to see if he has an ongoing contamination he should follow my procedure rather than assuming he does because he didn't get rid of it the first time he shocked the system.

I know that over the years I have successfully disinfected thousands of wells and water systems

A private well does not mean that the code does not apply.
The code is written to protect the consumer as well as the installer.
Failure to follow the code leaves one open to litigation.

Do whatever you want to do. I am just explaining to the OP the code accepted and correct way to disinfect.
 
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Gary Slusser

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Steve, sometimes, like this one, I think all you know about this type thing is what is in your code books. And my guess is that the OP being a homeowner with a private well has no need to conform to those codes. And if he wants to see if he has an ongoing contamination he should follow my procedure rather than assuming he does because he didn't get rid of it the first time he shocked the system.

I know that over the years I have successfully disinfected thousands of wells and water systems

A private well does not mean that the code does not apply.
The code is written to protect the consumer as well as the installer.
Failure to follow the code leaves one open to litigation.

Do whatever you want to do. I am just explaining to the OP the code accepted and correct way to disinfect.
Do you agree that as a homeowner, I do not have to get any type of permit or permission from anyone to shock my well for whatever reason I decide to shock my well? How about that I do not have to read all the various code books before I shock my well? How about that after I shock my well for whatever reason that I do not have any requirement to report my action to anyone or any agency or other government authority? Do you agree that that means there is no enforcement of the code?

If you don't agree with those points, you should because that is the reality of being a homeowner with a private well anywhere in the US to my knowledge. Also to my knowledge it is also the reality applied to landlords that rent private property with a private well to a tenant such as a house or farm; or the tenant of the landlord, meaning the tenant can shock the well without the landlords approval or knowledge although some to most landlords may not like their tenant shocking the well without saying something to them first.

So now the question is why you would interject "THE code" into this thread when it does not apply to the OP and is totally unenforceable on him?

Personally I think it is simply to be able to disagree with my statement because otherwise it serves no purpose in a DIY forum. It's what got you banned here with various names over the last year and a half.
 

Valveman

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"If i have power going to my submersible pump, a cut-off at well and a faucet at well, no water in tank, lines to house......can I open faucet at well (but not all the way open, flip breaker powering up pump via pressure switch (which will come on due to no pressure) without damaging anything?" ugabulldog

Yes you can.
 

Tom Sawyer

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My post was origionally directed at the OP and I prefer it to remain that way.
 
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