Service Pole to Well House Underground Line Specs

[ActionDave]

My Irish wife blames me for everything. Happy Holidays!!!

My wife is Hungarian, the rest of the statement remains the same.

Nothing wrong with holding off on the sub-panel. This will give you some time evaluate some power needs you haven't considered yet.

 

[Ballvalve]

to pull the neutral later, you would probably have to use one of the existing wires and pull 2 new wires. Now you have a back up wire.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Ballvalve]

Originally Posted by CHOLLA BOB

Circumstantial Info: I have been told twice, that jacketed UF has restricted heat transfer in conduit. A Home Depot rep told me that in the country, UF in conduit is accepted because of varmints eating wire; the high frequency sounds emanating from the wire drive the varmints insane and they chew the wire to terminate the sound. Conduit protects wires from rabid varmints. I will have to find the code ordinance referencing this.
I was rolling in the floor laughing when I read this. Don't believe everything you hear as this is the biggest line of bull I have heard in many a year

A lot of houses have burned down from rodent chewed ROmano type wire. I left an electric panel open for a day and came back to find NO insulation on any wire in the panel! And there were tons of not hot wires and junk laying about, and not nibbled.

So something is going on. Maybe rats have a built in hot circuit tester and a little red alarm in their head goes off. Most interesing when you find them hanging and toasted from the last bad chew.

 

[DonL]

to pull the neutral later, you would probably have to use one of the existing wires and pull 2 new wires. Now you have a back up wire.

I would have a extra pull string or Two in the conduit.

It is hard to change green, That has to be a ground, Over sized at that. Especially when you have two ground rods at the pump.

At least if lightning ever strikes, It will have a nice Ground to go to. It may follow the green. I would hope that it knows the color code...


Yes this is the joke for today.


Drink, Don't Drive. Smoke but don't inhale...

 

[CHOLLA BOB]

I would have a extra pull string or Two in the conduit.

I thought about this. What size line should I leave? Thought maybe this was not an option and glad to hear. Glad I went with the 1 inch as the electrician said it will leave options open ahead. Using the third wire would be fine to pull a new wire, another good option.

Over the years, I have had cars outside in fields for a winter or two; never had a wire chewed (Eastern and Western varmints). But I know they chew building wires and cause massive damage in the right situation. Maybe the circuit has to be live. Standing at Home Depot with the rep getting lit up, saying those varmints want to kill when they hear that electrical frequency made me wonder if he was tuned into the varmint realm and knew something. Now I'm going to go out and check my car wiring. Knock on the bar.

Conduit and wire going in the trench tomorrow. Electrician for Friday. THANKS and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

 

[DonL]

Normally the pule string is small and takes little room in the conduit. I buy it in a box. You will not need much, You might be ably to buy a couple hundred feet for $1 or two.

There is something to the rodents eating the wire insulation, Not sure, but maybe they sense the heat and think it will make a warm nest building material. I have seen it in nests. Maybe it taste good, I have never tasted it.

Years ago they put Arsenic in the wire insulation to protect from rodents, before it was outlawed.

 

[ActionDave]

I thought about this. What size line should I leave? Thought maybe this was not an option and glad to hear. Glad I went with the 1 inch as the electrician said it will leave options open ahead. Using the third wire would be fine to pull a new wire, another good option.

Over the years, I have had cars outside in fields for a winter or two; never had a wire chewed (Eastern and Western varmints). But I know they chew building wires and cause massive damage in the right situation. Maybe the circuit has to be live. Standing at Home Depot with the rep getting lit up, saying those varmints want to kill when they hear that electrical frequency made me wonder if he was tuned into the varmint realm and knew something. Now I'm going to go out and check my car wiring. Knock on the bar.

Conduit and wire going in the trench tomorrow. Electrician for Friday. THANKS and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

If you can get your hands on some mule tape that is the best to use with PVC. Poly lines and nylon string can eat a hole in PVC so if that is what you use be sure and pull it slowly, very slow. Slow and easy. There is also nothing wrong with using on of the old wires to pull in new ones when the time comes.

I think the critters chew on wires where they live. If they have not moved into the old car for a long stay they won't do any gnawing.

 

[Ballvalve]

Packrats made a huge nest in a diesel engine of mine and burned the whole rig up - acorns, sticks, pine needles, maybe they even opened up a diesel line to feed it.

If you dig holes and have the fun of bringing up very surprised bucketfulls of gopher families, you'll soon learn to laugh at any direct bury wire.

Except for phone wire with a heavy lead or aluminum sheath. Good stuff. Rodents hate aluminum.

 

[CHOLLA BOB]

Will look for the mule tape. Probably using a wire to pull another is a good stock idea.

I may have one problem cornered: the blown 15amp breaker that feeds the outdoor light and livestock water heater which wants to stay OFF. A Lowes rep said the GFCIs are real hair-trigger with any moisture. The exterior GFCI hanging on the pole is ancient and hardly resets and I noticed is not fully tightened to the exterior box. There is a plastic face shield over it, always open.
Bought a full exterior GFCI replacement setup and new 15 amp breaker; this 80's style breaker is not directly available in GFI. I had this on my list since working on main this summer.

This single pole 15 amp breaker is right next to the twin-pole 20 amp well breaker. Wonder if one could effect the other on the same buss bar. Will find out soon enough.

 

[CHOLLA BOB]

Will look for the mule tape. Probably using a wire to pull another would work well enough.

I may have one problem cornered: the blown 15 amp breaker, that feeds the outdoor light and livestock water heater, which wants to stay OFF. A Lowes rep said the GFCIs are real hair-trigger with any moisture. The exterior GFCI hanging on the pole is ancient and hardly resets and I noticed is not fully tightened to the exterior box. There is a plastic face shield over it, always open. Bought a full exterior GFCI replacement setup and new 15 amp breaker; this 80's style breaker is not directly available in GFI. I had this on my list since working on main this summer.

This single pole 15 amp breaker is right next to the twin-pole 20 amp well breaker. Wonder if one could effect the other on the same buss bar. Will find out soon enough.

 

[DonL]

Main Breaker is a must for Safety.

Will look for the mule tape. Probably using a wire to pull another is a good stock idea.

I may have one problem cornered: the blown 15amp breaker that feeds the outdoor light and livestock water heater which wants to stay OFF. A Lowes rep said the GFCIs are real hair-trigger with any moisture. The exterior GFCI hanging on the pole is ancient and hardly resets and I noticed is not fully tightened to the exterior box. There is a plastic face shield over it, always open.
Bought a full exterior GFCI replacement setup and new 15 amp breaker; this 80's style breaker is not directly available in GFI. I had this on my list since working on main this summer.

This single pole 15 amp breaker is right next to the twin-pole 20 amp well breaker. Wonder if one could effect the other on the same buss bar. Will find out soon enough.

I think that even if Code does not require it, Because of the number of circuits in the box, I would put my work and money into installing a box with a Main, That would be a good safety measure.


This is a good example where Code does not require it, but having a Main shut off is better for Safety...


Just my thought.

 

[ActionDave]

Will look for the mule tape.

If you see any telephone company guys they often have some on their truck.

This single pole 15 amp breaker is right next to the twin-pole 20 amp well breaker. Wonder if one could effect the other on the same buss bar. Will find out soon enough.

It will not.

 

[DonL]

I may have one problem cornered: the blown 15 amp breaker, that feeds the outdoor light and livestock water heater, which wants to stay OFF.

That Breaker that you called "FLY" That had the fly on it, Looked like it has signs that it may have a loose connection to the panels buss bar. (Close to the dead Fly)

You may want to check an make sure that The Connections are Clean. If they are corroded and not making a good connection, The breaker can get hot and may trip.


Good Luck on Your Project.


You can see a smoke line.

 

[Ballvalve]

Put some no-corrode past on the tabs - electrical. Take a look at GE breakers at home-dopes - they now include a dollop of grease on the terminals. Nice.

 

[CHOLLA BOB]

That Breaker that you called "FLY" That had the fly on it, Looked like it has signs that it may have a loose connection to the panels buss bar. (Close to the dead Fly) You may want to check an make sure that The Connections are Clean. If they are corroded and not making a good connection, The breaker can get hot and may trip.

That breaker wreaked havoc on this place, destroying components, and finally killing half the electricity in the place. If you mean the breaker, it's out of commission. If the buss bar, then it could be the same problem working on the well breaker. With those wasp nests right on the bar, everything was in bad shape. The new trailer main breaker is fine; the new well breaker is not. I use dielectric grease on all my automotive electric. Will start using here.

Did that fly cause that smoke line or an ongoing bad connection? I diagnosed this problem as a 240 volt neutral open as it fit all the specs.
http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/twocircuit.htm

Last Detail Conduit Question: The 60 feet of 1" Schedule 40 PVC conduit comes up from a 22 inch deep trench and up a service pole to the breaker box on the pole. The offset from the pole to the box is 3 inches to a 3/4 inch breakout.

I would like to reduce on the pole the 1" to 3/4" with a threaded coupling and will heat up the pipe to make the correct turn. Is there a minimum height above ground level where I should make the threaded reduction? Is the heat gun bend in the PVC OK?

Finding 1 inch to 3/4 inch reductions was a problem and offsets were a joke; no bend.

So the 15 amp will not effect the well breaker next to it. That's good to know. Thanks!

 

[ActionDave]

Did that fly cause that smoke line or an ongoing bad connection? I diagnosed this problem as a 240 volt neutral open as it fit all the specs.

Whoa!! First off flies do not cause breakers to trip. Second if your pump is 240V you do not have an open neutral problem. Sounds like you are in need of qualified help.

 

[DonL]

The Fly would not have caused that, It was probably just trying to stay warm and got cooked.

 

[CHOLLA BOB]

Right next to that breaker was two wasps nests: the dirt volcano style nest on the buss bar.

The open neutral was this FLY breaker which was not the well pump but the trailer electricity. It's the top breaker in the main box picture. The symptoms were half the trailer electricity flickering, the other half going brighter, and then eventually no electricity to one half of trailer. The only well pump breaker symptom was that the breaker shuts off.

The FLY breaker is now in my Poltergeist Museum. Qualified help is on vacation.

 

[JWelectric]

Bob

A 240 volt single phase panel wires our homes in 120 volt parallel through the neutral. All 240 volt circuits are series circuits.
When the neutral is lost then the entire home becomes a 240 volt series circuit simply because we have lost the center tap of the transformer.
What will happen is the lights will some burn bright and some burn dim but any electronic devices that are not dual rated 120/240 will expire.

 

[CHOLLA BOB]

I have some expired electronic devices that are now door stops. The question is how did the open neutral impact the APCs? I have the highest end models and the older one would beep, the newer one would register Events. Thought it was our country electric as there are tons of spikes and surges. I have a couple of TrippLite models from the early 90s and have always wondered if they are still good. These two went through an apartment short that took out several pieces of recording equipment (electric guitar string touches radiator and blows everything through recording board: I believe it was a mis-wired lamp socket ground and neutral reversed. Sparks across the room!). How do you tell if an APC is still good?

Getting out the Heat Gun today and bending Schedule 40 PVC conduit for the 3" offset. Will run the 1 inch Schedule 40 conduit a foot out of the ground and reduce to 3/4" S40 conduit with a threaded coupling set. This way when the electrician says it's all wrong, it can be switched out.